Canon and Nikon Microadjustment

T

thegary

Suspended / Banned
Messages
29
Name
Gary
Edit My Images
No
Hello everyone, hope you have all had good holidays.

I have a question for both Nikon and Canon users. I am a Canon user, but i would like to hear others experiences.

How many Nikon or Canon user have had to adjust there cameras microadjustment on their cameras for individual lenses?

I ask this question because my old Canon 30D was pin sharp with all my lenses. I have had my 50D for about a year, and all my lenses but 1, needed to be adjusted under microadjustment. I find this odd, since i know the lenses are ok. I have even tried them on my Dads 30D. Pin Sharp!

Is this an issue with the Nikon users out there? I am getting worried the amount of work that needs to be done before you can go out and take photographs. It used to be so much simpler. Also after watching the videos on the new 7D and how to setup the features, well i don't know if i have that kind of time when i go out to do photos. Seems like alot of work. If you have not seen the videos , worth a watch.

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3167

In my opinion i would just rather have a camera properly adjusted from Canon and not bother with the adjustment.

THanks
thegary
 
Not with the lenses I have here - it was the first thing I checked when I took them over from the previous photographer here, but I suspect my old 17-35 might need a tweak, as it was a teeny-tiny bit out when I used it last year on my D2x bodies...
 
I suppose the answer is the 30D is 8Mpixel and the 50D is 15Mpixel, so it will show up the slight discrepancies more.

The only lens I have had to do is my 100-400 and then only by 3 clicks.
 
as Byker says, the 50D will show up tiny errors more than the 30D will due to being able to resolve much more detail, its just one of those things, the good thing is with the 50D you can adjust each lens seprately anf not have to touch them again, bit long winded but once set that should be it, and it wont affect the 30D settings if you put the lens back on it for any reason :)
 
It's a bit of a minefield I think this...there seems to be varying suggestions all over the net about if you should set focus at min or max distance and if at min or max zoom, for zooms.

That said, I've fiddled with 3 of my lenses + two of them with a TC's attached and found they needed small adjustments.
 
ive found this with my 50d, not been happy with the shots and now need to microfartabout with the lenses. Its all well and good being able to do that, but is the extra resolution really showing up that much difference or is the camera shipped from canon with no calibration? My 70-200 was pin sharp on my 20d, and its not at all on the 50..I reckon canon have saved some money on manufacturing by not calibrating properly...

/awaits canon rep to tell me im wrong...
 
what methods are you all using?
 
matty said:
ive found this with my 50d, not been happy with the shots and now need to microfartabout with the lenses. Its all well and good being able to do that, but is the extra resolution really showing up that much difference or is the camera shipped from canon with no calibration? My 70-200 was pin sharp on my 20d, and its not at all on the 50..I reckon canon have saved some money on manufacturing by not calibrating properly...

/awaits canon rep to tell me im wrong...
Click to expand...

Just bought a 70-200 f2.8 IS second hand and it's pin sharp on my 50D and that's been bounced around through the mail to get to me. Again I'd suggest it's the 6mp against the 15mp that's showing up the lens rather than the body itself.

I do remember from a few years back people on here saying they sent cameras/lens combinations away to be calibrated by manufacturer.

I remember when I used to be able to go around a local roundabout at full throttle in my old vauxhall HB viva, but I can't do it now in my TVR.
It must be something wrong with the road surface. I await my council's rep to tell me otherwise. ;)
 
Byker28i said:
Just bought a 70-200 f2.8 IS second hand and it's pin sharp on my 50D and that's been bounced around through the mail to get to me. Again I'd suggest it's the 6mp against the 15mp that's showing up the lens rather than the body itself.

I do remember from a few years back people on here saying they sent cameras/lens combinations away to be calibrated by manufacturer.

I remember when I used to be able to go around a local roundabout at full throttle in my old vauxhall HB viva, but I can't do it now in my TVR.
It must be something wrong with the road surface. I await my council's rep to tell me otherwise. ;)
Click to expand...

20d and same lens = spot on
50d and same lens = AF out

yes i understand that calibration is required, but why? surely if they can make the 20d focus correctly, why is the 50d not? Its not a case of resolution making it less sharp, its a case of not focusing correctly..I dont mind having to microadjust for focus, but why does a slightly bigger sensor make the AF point slip? Also, im technically competant enough to do it(quite you there at the back!) but what about people who are not?
 
What would be interesting is to see if:
"20d and same lens = spot on
50d and same lens = AF out"

applies to every 20d and 50d. My thinking is this:

Canon (in order to keep prices sensible) can only calibrate cameras and lenses at production within a certain tolerance - let's call that +/- 10. It may be that your 20d was at +5 and your lens at -5, the effects broadly cancelling eachother out. On the other hand, your 50d could be much more accurately calibrated itself, say -1, but the overall effect taking into account the lens is far worse.

Obviously this is a fairly simplistic model, but I suspect it goes a long way to explaining why people seem to find some variation in camera/lens combo performance.
 
yeah I would agree with that Mark, but its bloody annoying to have spent £1k on a camera and £500+ on a lens only to have to fiddle with it to get it to work 'properly'
 
Chaz Photos said:
I have done my lens and found then to be all front focusing a bit some more then others. when you think the circle of confusion is only 0.019 mm this is a very tight line to adjust to.
The thing is once done you get sharp photos
Click to expand...

Is there a tutorial about this anywhere.:)
 
Anyone?:shrug:
 
I micro adjust all mine and they all have different settings and they all benefit 100% from getting it right...
 
jockwav said:
Is there a tutorial about this anywhere.:)
Click to expand...

there are some like this one I did not use it but will tell you a lot about it forget where I go the info on how I did mine I try and find it
Canon Suggested Micro Focus Adjustment

This is Canon's suggested technique

* Mount the camera on a good tripod.
* Set up a target for the camera to focus on. The reference target should have sufficient contrast for the AF system to detect. It should be flat and parallel to the camera's focal plane, and centred.
* Lighting should be bright / even.
* Camera-to-subject distance should be no less than 50 times the focal length of the lens. For a 50mm lens, that would be at least 2.5 meters.
* Set the lens for AF and the camera for One-Shot AF, and manually select the centre focusing point.
* Shoot at the maximum aperture of the lens via manual mode or aperture-priority. Adjust exposure level to get an accurate exposure. Use low ISO setting.
* If the lens has an image stabilizer, turn it off.
* Use a remote switch or the camera's self-timer to fire the shutter. Use mirror lock up as well.
* Take three sets of images at microadjustment settings of -5, 0 and +5, i.e, three consecutive images at -5, three consecutive images at 0, and three consecutive images at +5.
* Look at the images on your screen at 100% magnification.
* Take additional sets of test images at different microadjustment settings if necessary until the sharpest image is achieved.
* Register the corresponding microadjustment settings in the camera.

TO add to this I know when I did mine I put a metal rule on edge at 45deg so I can see the focus point clear ie front and back points this makes it un-necessary to take so many shots Oh I did mine tethered so I had the shots live on screen Much quicker then take the card out ever time.
 
Chaz Photos said:
there are some like this one I did not use it but will tell you a lot about it forget where I go the info on how I did mine I try and find it
Canon Suggested Micro Focus Adjustment

This is Canon's suggested technique

* Mount the camera on a good tripod.
* Set up a target for the camera to focus on. The reference target should have sufficient contrast for the AF system to detect. It should be flat and parallel to the camera's focal plane, and centred.
* Lighting should be bright / even.
* Camera-to-subject distance should be no less than 50 times the focal length of the lens. For a 50mm lens, that would be at least 2.5 meters.
* Set the lens for AF and the camera for One-Shot AF, and manually select the centre focusing point.
* Shoot at the maximum aperture of the lens via manual mode or aperture-priority. Adjust exposure level to get an accurate exposure. Use low ISO setting.
* If the lens has an image stabilizer, turn it off.
* Use a remote switch or the camera's self-timer to fire the shutter. Use mirror lock up as well.
* Take three sets of images at microadjustment settings of -5, 0 and +5, i.e, three consecutive images at -5, three consecutive images at 0, and three consecutive images at +5.
* Look at the images on your screen at 100% magnification.
* Take additional sets of test images at different microadjustment settings if necessary until the sharpest image is achieved.
* Register the corresponding microadjustment settings in the camera.

TO add to this I know when I did mine I put a metal rule on edge at 45deg so I can see the focus point clear ie front and back points this makes it un-necessary to take so many shots Oh I did mine tethered so I had the shots live on screen Much quicker then take the card out ever time.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chaz,but i have no idea what this microadjustment is.:shrug:
 
Some has asked what microadjustment is.

Well put simply, if you focus on a something, and it appears out of focus or not sharp, then the camera/lens could be front focus( infront of object) or backfocusing ( behind the object ) . So either way the object will appear soft/out of focus.

You need to do tests on a tripod to eliminate any camera shake.

so the microadjustment tell the camera to ajdust for each lens front or back. To bring the object into focus. The info is stored in teh camera memory for each time you put that lens on.

Really i was trying to find out how many of the NIKON users have to do this. Its a fact that pretty much every Canon that has this, now needs it done. I know that some NIKONS have this option, but do they need to use it?

thanks
thegary
 
Byker28i said:
I suppose the answer is the 30D is 8Mpixel and the 50D is 15Mpixel, so it will show up the slight discrepancies more.

The only lens I have had to do is my 100-400 and then only by 3 clicks.
Click to expand...

If this were true, then why do we not hear from anyone having trouble with their Canon Rebel XTi (500D) which is also 15mp.
I also have a 30D with no problems, but concerned about the number of people having focusing issues with some of the newer Canon cameras. So at this time I've no intentions of upgrading.
Like the OP asked, how many Nikon users have this issue.

Brian
 
By george he,s got it now,thanks guys:)
Thanks for all the detail Chaz:thumbs::):clap:
 
This a free version of a more expensive type of focusing chart. There are many, but this one may be better for you.

I suggest that you spray mount these to card stock after printing. To make it completely straight and there for making sure your bang on focus.

http://www.invisicord.com/docs/invisicordfocuschart.pdf

Still waiting to hear from some of the NIKON USERS out there.

Thanks
thegary
 
Cheers thegary:):thumbs:
 
I found my non prime lenses all had a bit of front focus which I adjusted. Was quite surprised about it to be honest. (I'm a Nikon user)
 
thegary said:
Still waiting to hear from some of the NIKON USERS out there.

Thanks
thegary
Click to expand...

Never had the problem. In fact, I would be more than annoyed if I spent the amount of money on cameras and lenses that I do and had the problem.But then I don`t pixel peep to the n`th degree,perhaps that is the problem,I don`t know....:shrug:
 
fracster said:
Never had the problem. In fact, I would be more than annoyed if I spent the amount of money on cameras and lenses that I do and had the problem.But then I don`t pixel peep to the n`th degree,perhaps that is the problem,I don`t know....:shrug:
Click to expand...

I dont pixel-peep, I know what level of image sharpness i could get, and compared to what i get now....im going to have a go with the moire chart and see if that makes a difference...:thinking:
 
matty said:
I dont pixel-peep, I know what level of image sharpness i could get, and compared to what i get now....im going to have a go with the moire chart and see if that makes a difference...:thinking:
Click to expand...

Fair does Matty, but it seems an awful lot of farting about for an expensive piece of kit,surely you should not have to be doing this...........:shrug:
 
fracster said:
Fair does Matty, but it seems an awful lot of farting about for an expensive piece of kit,surely you should not have to be doing this...........:shrug:
Click to expand...

quite right. Seriouslyconsidering chopping the lot in and moving to Nikon, the latest cameras are consistantly impressing me with lack of noise and increased picture clarity. Going to go to jessops with my camera, and fire off a couple of shots at something in good light, then do the same with the nikon, take them home and see what looks best. :nuts:
 
matty said:
quite right. Seriouslyconsidering chopping the lot in and moving to Nikon, the latest cameras are consistantly impressing me with lack of noise and increased picture clarity. Going to go to jessops with my camera, and fire off a couple of shots at something in good light, then do the same with the nikon, take them home and see what looks best. :nuts:
Click to expand...

Hello,

This was the reason i posted this message, i was wanting to hear from NIKON users to see if they are having these Microadjustment issues. I like the D300 and its only a few MP less than the 50D. But i really like what i see of the NIKON posters and their images.

But more than anything i am sick of the amount of setup a camera needs before i can go out and shoot images. I used to be able to do this with the older DLSR (30D), but not anymore. After my first month of owning a 50D i was ready to return it. But finally after getting the proper focusing chart was i able to get my camera to like my lenses.

I really hope that NIKON doesn't have this problem. I have been considering the switch myself.

Thegary
 
I am a bit skeptical about a lot of this. It only seems to have sprung up now that we have incredibly fine micro-focus adjustment available and, human nature being what it is, if you think you might have a problem and go pixel peeping to look for it, then there's a good chance that you'll find it.

I don't see how pixel count makes any difference - you don't need many pixels at all to identify the point of sharpest focus. And I cannot think for a moment that Canon would think they didn't have to bother about setting up their cameras properly because they are now fitted with micro-adjust.

AF systems are not absolutely accurate, or consistent, and they work within a tolerance. Some of the popular tests, particularly those invloving an A4 sheet of paper shot at 45 dgrees, and at very close distance, are extremely critical - beyond design tolerance. In so being they are also very prone to user error, quite apart from the fact that shooting at such close distance, particularly for a longer lens, is almost bound to throw up problems. Focus accuracy varies over both distance range and focal length setting. There are also technical problems associated with focusing on an angled target.

Can recommends testing at a distance no less than 50x focal length, as Chaz quoted in post #19. If you calibrate for a closer distance than this, when you come to shoot stuff at more normal range, it will be out again. Here's a link to the full article by Chuck Westfall that Chaz quoted from, with a bit more relevant information. Second question down http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0812/tech-tips.html
 
thegary said:
Hello,

This was the reason i posted this message, i was wanting to hear from NIKON users to see if they are having these Microadjustment issues. I like the D300 and its only a few MP less than the 50D. But i really like what i see of the NIKON posters and their images.

But more than anything i am sick of the amount of setup a camera needs before i can go out and shoot images. I used to be able to do this with the older DLSR (30D), but not anymore. After my first month of owning a 50D i was ready to return it. But finally after getting the proper focusing chart was i able to get my camera to like my lenses.

I really hope that NIKON doesn't have this problem. I have been considering the switch myself.

Thegary
Click to expand...
Given I have lenses which both exhibit and don't exhibit the problem on the same camera under the same test conditions I would say this is a factor of the lens more than the actual camera itself (I have a D300 btw - absolutely superb piece of kit)
 
My "consumer" lenses are OK on my D300 but my 300 f/2.8 went back to Nikon for adjustment because it was way out, even now it still needs +6 to get it spot on.
 
DonnaM said:
My "consumer" lenses are OK on my D300 but my 300 f/2.8 went back to Nikon for adjustment because it was way out, even now it still needs +6 to get it spot on.
Click to expand...

thank you for your feedback.

Is this lens out on another of your cameras if you have one? I am just curious if this is something that has now started with higher MP cameras, or just faster manufacturing.

Thanks
Gary
 
thegary said:
thank you for your feedback.

Is this lens out on another of your cameras if you have one? I am just curious if this is something that has now started with higher MP cameras, or just faster manufacturing.

Thanks
Gary
Click to expand...

I have only the one Nikon unfortunately. I sent both camera and lens back to Nikon, they said the camera was OK and they tweaked the lens. My worry is that the microadjust is a different (and significantly higher) setting with the 1.4TC attached to the 300. I want to buy the new TC-20eIII when it is released later this month and I am hoping upon hope that there is enough microadjust to cope with it.
 
Many of the lenses in use today date back to the film era when people shot 35mm film and might typically print at up to 12x8. The accuracy of the AF systems between camera body and lens served that era perfectly well. Of course, in the film days there was no such thing as pixel peeping and viewing 100% crops and then complaining about image (pixel!) softness.

Even when digital SLRs came onto the scene the low pixel density meant that the camera didn't really have the resolution to make AF performance too critical. A 6 megapixel DSLR file viewed at 100% would display at a virtual size of almost 24"x16" when viewed on my laptop screen. That is a big step up in magnification from a 35mm negative going to a 12" print. In fact it is an enlargement ~3X greater, assuming the DSLR in question has an APS-C sensor, and far more likely to reveal problems with AF accuracy, but the tools were not available to us mere mortals to improve things, even if we needed to.

Now that we have APS-C cameras with pixel counts of 15MP and 18MP, viewing those images at 100% simply makes the cracks too obvious to ignore. Perhaps on a slow, possibly soft, consumer zoom lens the DOF is large enough to make hyper-accurate focusing less important, but with some lenses and shooting styles you will need mm perfect focusing.

A 7D file, viewed at 100% on my laptop, is equivalent to a virtual image of 39"x26". If those pixels are to add an advantage then the captures have to be focused accurately. What was acceptable for film, and the D30, and even the 30D, may no longer be acceptable for a 50D or 7D. The AF needs to be more accurate, but the lenses are still (mostly) the same old lens designs of yesteryear. It is therefore no longer the case that mere engineering tolerances will satisfy the most meticulous pixel peeper. The manufacturers have now given us a tool so that we can tighten the tolerances for ourselves, in our own homes.

Some may say that AF microadjustent is a cop out. Perhaps it is. However, I think it is a way for the manufacturers to manage manufacturing costs down to an acceptable level, while still allowing the most fastidious photographers to squeeze the maximum performance from their gear.

As an example, here's a shot I took today with my 7D and 100-400. (apologies for the IQ - the website that hosts the file has resized it)...

20100105_141048_1687_LR-3.jpg


If we zoom in to 100% to take a look at the DOF we see that it is probably no more than 2-3mm....

20100105_141048_1687_LR-4.jpg


If my AF was not accurate to the mm then a shot like this would fall short of the best that one would wish for. If my AF had been off by more than 1mm, or 2mm at the most, this shot would have been ruined. As it happens, I have checked the focusing of this lens and it has not needed adjustment, but I do have other body/lens combinations that do benefit from some tweaking.

If you want to realise the maximum potential of your high resolution camera, whether a 50D, 7D or something else, it is worth making sure your focusing is as accurate as possible, and not simply "close".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top