Canon 600 EX RT

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wooster

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Can anyone confirm if these would sync at 1/100s when used with the 5D mk 2 ? I have been told this is true but I'm not sure.

I'm curious because I've been using mostly Nikon gear for a while now but I never completely gave up my Canon stuff. I've now decided to concentrate my photography exclusively on using Canon gear from now on and am considering buying a couple of these.

I haven't upgraded from the mk2 for a long while now so this would affect my purchase ( although I might just be tempted to splash out on the Mk3 if this is true anyway, so who knows )
 
wooster said:
Can anyone confirm if these would sync at 1/100s when used with the 5D mk 2 ? I have been told this is true but I'm not sure.

I'm curious because I've been using mostly Nikon gear for a while now but I never completely gave up my Canon stuff. I've now decided to concentrate my photography exclusively on using Canon gear from now on and am considering buying a couple of these.

I haven't upgraded from the mk2 for a long while now so this would affect my purchase ( although I might just be tempted to splash out on the Mk3 if this is true anyway, so who knows )
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Max sync speed is 1/200 on most canon cameras
 
The limitation is the camera - any gun will sync up to 1/200sec on a 5D2. And the 600EX-RT will run to 1/8000sec max in HSS mode, as will any other HSS enabled gun.
 
Thank you both. What you say was always my belief too but I am informed that Canon's official line is different on these flashes.

EDIT:

Found this on Neil Van Niekerk's site:

"3. High-Speed Sync
On p.51 of the manual it states that for cameras prior to 2011 then the max flash sync speed is one increment lower. I assume this means that for cameras like the Canon 5D Mark II , the max flash sync speed with the 600EX-RT is now 1/100. In fact, a (!) warning signal appears on the speedlite’s display at any shutter speed higher than that. The manual also states that HSS isn’t possible.

Well, I can confirm that HSS is indeed possible. And from a few tests I have done, it seems like the output takes a small knock at 1/200 and HSS .. perhaps 1/3rd of a stop by the looks of it. At 1/250th, there is a distinct drop in flash output. This is consistent with how speedlites work in HSS mode. So I’m not sure if I am missing something here, but I would have to disagree with the manual on this. HSS is indeed possible with the 5D Mark II, and quite possibly then with other previous models as well."

Seems the official line is that it will only sync at 1/100s but that this isn't actually the case? A misprint in their manual?
 
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wooster said:
Thank you both. What you say was always my belief too but I am informed that Canon's official line is different on these flashes.

EDIT:

Found this on Neil Van Niekerk's site:

"3. High-Speed Sync
On p.51 of the manual it states that for cameras prior to 2011 then the max flash sync speed is one increment lower. I assume this means that for cameras like the Canon 5D Mark II , the max flash sync speed with the 600EX-RT is now 1/100. In fact, a (!) warning signal appears on the speedlite’s display at any shutter speed higher than that. The manual also states that HSS isn’t possible.

Well, I can confirm that HSS is indeed possible. And from a few tests I have done, it seems like the output takes a small knock at 1/200 and HSS .. perhaps 1/3rd of a stop by the looks of it. At 1/250th, there is a distinct drop in flash output. This is consistent with how speedlites work in HSS mode. So I’m not sure if I am missing something here, but I would have to disagree with the manual on this. HSS is indeed possible with the 5D Mark II, and quite possibly then with other previous models as well."

Seems the official line is that it will only sync at 1/100s but that this isn't actually the case? A misprint in their manual?
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Oh yes, I remember now. Apologies for the info I gave above that may need to be qualified with the RT guns.

A quick google confirms that there is quite a lot of debate on it with regards to all cameras pre 5D3 and 1DX, with Canon stating the handbook is correct, while several respected commentators are not having the anticipated problems with cameras like the 7D and 5D2 :thinking:

Just guessing here, but I suspect it relates to radio remote operation and Canon are being hyper-conservative in their statements - as they always are, eg the radio range of 30m when it will do more like 100m, and a few other things that spring to mind.

There are not many 600RT users on here. Suggest you do a web trawl (eg DPReview, POTN, CanonRumours) and see if you can get to the bottom of it. Be interested to hear what you find!
 
Cheers Richard. It's a bit confusing and no mistake. If I find out any more I will report back :)

I've found some example shots taken with the 5D mk2 and 600EX RT but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to another forum from this one. Can someone clarify and if it is permissible I will post a link? Thanks
 
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i have a 600RT. tonight if u want, i can try a test shot on my old 400d to see if i can take a shot at 1/200 if that helps with your question?
 
wooster said:
Cheers Richard. It's a bit confusing and no mistake. If I find out any more I will report back :)

I've found some example shots taken with the 5D mk2 and 600EX RT but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to another forum from this one. Can someone clarify and if it is permissible I will post a link? Thanks
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I think that's okay. It's often done around here.
 
Cool. Chaps the issue seems to be not that it won't' do it but that it affects IQ. Here's a link from another forum I found with some examples. Doesn't seem too radical but the effect is there. Whether you'd notice it in real life I don't know. Apparently most people say not so that's good..

Anyway here's the link I found. It isn't great but it shows the results a bit:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=15992671&postcount=15

Also another report with smaller examples. It is a review of the flashgun and the examples are near the bottom of the page:

http://jimheinephotography.com/2012/04/07/canon-600ex-rt-radio-flash-review/
 
wooster said:
Cool. Chaps the issue seems to be not that it won't' do it but that it affects IQ. Here's a link from another forum I found with some examples. Doesn't seem too radical but the effect is there. Whether you'd notice it in real life I don't know. Apparently most people say not so that's good..

Anyway here's the link I found. It isn't great but it shows the results a bit:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=15992671&postcount=15

Also another report with smaller examples. It is a review of the flashgun and the examples are near the bottom of the page:

http://jimheinephotography.com/2012/04/07/canon-600ex-rt-radio-flash-review/
Click to expand...

Those are good links, confirming that there is indeed a problem. It appears entirely symptomatic of a delay in the exact triggering moment, meaning that when you push the shutter speed up towards 1/200sec, the second shutter curtain is beginning to close just as the flash pulse is ramping up to max brightness, hence the shading at the bottom. This will be more noticeable at full power and might even be clean at say 1/4 power and below (at higher power settings, the flash pulse takes longer to get to max brightness, though we're talking tiny fractions of a ms). I'm guessing it's not a problem with 5D3/1DX as Canon has equipped those cameras with a fractionally earlier sync moment to compensate.

Overlaying this is the HSS issue that appears to be enabled at speeds below 1/200sec, presumably to overcome this. I've noticed with my 5D2 and 580EX guns it switches to HSS at 1/200sec when it shouldn't do that until 1/250sec and above, but it's only mildly annoying. These quirks are common with Canon and the often conflicting user feedback suggests to me that it varies with camera model and also the flash power level that most people don't fully appreciate.

What is most confusing of all is why Canon's new and expensive flagship gun should have these issues at all, when third party manufacturers can not only overcome them but even enhance flash sync performance, most notably Pocket Wizard. I would be unhappy about this, and probably give the 600EX-RT a miss unless I had a 5D3 or 1DX. That's a personal view and it's also clear that while what Canon says may be strictly correct, in practise it's more of a marginal issue. However, all things considered, if I was buying again I'd probably get Yongnuo 568 guns and their 622 triggers - they work without restrictions and also provide remote second curtain sync that Canon is still unable to do.
 
I'm wondering about the Yongnuo flashes myself. I was a bit worried re their reliability and how well they performed off - camera with wireless ( not Canon's infra - red ) Has anyone any comments on these points?

The other one I considered was the Nissin Di 866 which seems to have found favour. Don't know about these. Again any advice re these would be welcome.

I use manual with Plus IIs but also will sometimes use TTL with Radio Poppers so if either of these would work with both of these systems I'd be interested to know.
 
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wooster said:
I'm wondering about the Yongnuo flashes myself. I was a bit worried re their reliability and how well they performed off - camera with wireless ( not Canon's infra - red ) Has anyone any comments on these points?

The other one I considered was the Nissin Di 866 which seems to have found favour. Don't know about these. Again any advice re these would be welcome.

I use manual with Plus IIs but also will sometimes use TTL with Radio Poppers so if either of these would work with both of these systems I'd be interested to know.
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Yongnuo seems to have a good rep, despite the price, though actually their top range 568EX is not that cheap but it has high-end features like HSS. There is a long thread on their 622 triggers, that appear to be a total bargain
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=435002

Nissin 866 is good, so are the Metz guns, and Canon 430 too of course.. They'll work fine with your PW PlusII, but not sure about Radio Popper's TTL system. Check their website, though I'd guess a different piggy-back thingy would be required. Personally, I'd drop all those other triggers and just go for the YN 622, or PW Mini/Flex if you need their extra performance options (peak-hypersync, enhanced HSS, enhanced second-curtain sync - though it has to be said the 5D2's relatively sluggish shutter doesn't make best use of some of them).
 
Thanks Richard. I notice that all the other guns only swivel 90 degrees in one direction ( though 180 on the other ) and I wonder how big a deal that would be for me.
 
wooster said:
Thanks Richard. I notice that all the other guns only swivel 90 degrees in one direction ( though 180 on the other ) and I wonder how big a deal that would be for me.
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Some say it's a deal-breaker with the 430, which it is if you want to bounce flash behind you in some situations. There's also a DIY fix for it, which involves taking the head apart and filing off a plastic lug or something. Google that one :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Some say it's a deal-breaker with the 430, which it is if you want to bounce flash behind you in some situations. There's also a DIY fix for it, which involves taking the head apart and filing off a plastic lug or something. Google that one :)
Click to expand...

Looks like I should get my hands on a 580EX II for on camera work and then the 3rd party for slaves off camera.
 
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