Canon 5dmkiii to Mirrorless

Gary.D said:
Is the top end Sony the A7RII?
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The Sony A9 is the top end if your ok with 24mp files, the Sony A7RII is more sluggish out of the two but offers greater resolution and DR.

The Sony A9 is quite something but then it should be for the eye watering £4500 price tag!

- 100% silent shutter
- 20fps with big buffer
- No viewfinder black out
- 4K video
- Dual SD slots
- AF joystick and LCD Touch AF
- 5-axis IBIS
- Acceptable 24mp sensor with good mid-high ISO performace
- Excellent battery for a mirrorless system - easy 2000-3000 shots per battery.
 
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I have the XPRO 2 it uses dual card slots.
What I have seen is Sony lenses is they are great but massive
Defeats the object of mirroless
 
Mark Dell said:
I have the XPRO 2 it uses dual card slots.
What I have seen is Sony lenses is they are great but massive
Defeats the object of mirroless
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I think that size and weight aren't the only objectives for mirrorless. however, I see your point.
I use canon (occasionally pro) and mirrorless for my own shooting (low end panasonic) as it's so light and a with prime lenses, still a cracking image.
 
Gary.D said:
Is the top end Sony the A7RII?
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A7RII is on the level of 5D4/5DSR/D810/K1. A9 is more marketed to compete against the 1Dxii/5D crowd.

There is also Sony A99m2 which behaves like and pretty much is a mirrorless/DSLR hybrid.
 
juggler said:
I found the Sony A7II woefully uncomfortable to use. I so wanted to like it but it put me right off. Do the others in the range have the same form factor?
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I use mine with the battery grip, feel just right with the ability to go smaller if required by removed the grip.
 
Gary, I switched from Nikon FF bodies to Fuji X-T2. Biggest mistake I ever made. Switched back to Nikon less than 6 months later.

As a point of reference, I'm a full time pro photographer shooting 45 to 50 weddings a year.

At this point I usually get jumped on by mirrorless users so I will say, I have only ever shot with Fuji x system so cannot comment of Olympus, Sony etc. I would also add that one of my seconds shoots with a Fuji X-T1 and I actually prefer the images from that body to the X-T2.

I'm very happy too be using Nikon FF bodies and lenses again and am far happier with the quality of images I'm producing for my customers.
 
ryanyboy said:
Gary, I switched from Nikon FF bodies to Fuji X-T2. Biggest mistake I ever made. Switched back to Nikon less than 6 months later.

As a point of reference, I'm a full time pro photographer shooting 45 to 50 weddings a year.

At this point I usually get jumped on by mirrorless users so I will say, I have only ever shot with Fuji x system so cannot comment of Olympus, Sony etc. I would also add that one of my seconds shoots with a Fuji X-T1 and I actually prefer the images from that body to the X-T2.

I'm very happy too be using Nikon FF bodies and lenses again and am far happier with the quality of images I'm producing for my customers.
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Interesting to hear! What was it you were so unhappy with?
 
Gary.D said:
Interesting to hear! What was it you were so unhappy with?
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Low light, High ISO performance
AF performance, especially in low light
Poor RAW file handling in Lightroom
Less shallow DOF - due to smaller sensor

Some of these things aren't issues for other users I'm sure. But they were for me.
 
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I have said this before in quandaries like this - go and pick some up and see which one clicks. I have Canon and Oly both. I didn't like the feel of Sony or Fuji. Then I tried one with the Oly WOW. Have a look, if you are interested, at the Olympus ambassadors [ who pay for their kit] and see what you think.
 
Low light AF performance is the Achilles heel of most mirrorless bodies. And if they can lock-on very well in low light (eg: Sony A7S) then they can't track very well since they use CDAF.

Sony A9 from that point of view is pretty good but once again comes at a hefty price tag. Sony A7RII isn't half bad with fast lenses in low light.
But (and this a big BUT) Sony's focussing system implementation is retarded. It closes down the aperture to the set f-number which means if you are trying to track something it tries to focus and track with the closed down aperture instead of tracking wide open and stopping down for the shot. I wouldn't suggest Sony for any serious jobs until they fix this. (I haven't used A9, so I can't comment on it)
 
nandbytes said:
Low light AF performance is the Achilles heel of most mirrorless bodies. And if they can lock-on very well in low light (eg: Sony A7S) then they can't track very well since they use CDAF.

Sony A9 from that point of view is pretty good but once again comes at a hefty price tag. Sony A7RII isn't half bad with fast lenses in low light.
But (and this a big BUT) Sony's focussing system implementation is retarded. It closes down the aperture to the set f-number which means if you are trying to track something it tries to focus and track with the closed down aperture instead of tracking wide open and stopping down for the shot. I wouldn't suggest Sony for any serious jobs until they fix this. (I haven't used A9, so I can't comment on it)
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That's been fixed in last firmware! I was the one causing a fuss about focusing closed instead of wide open
 
jonneymendoza said:
That's been fixed in last firmware! I was the one causing a fuss about focusing closed instead of wide open
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I found my FE85/1.8 still did that when I used it recently. My A7RII is updated to the latest firmware. I think they have fixed it for some lenses but not for all of them!
 
DizMatt said:
this can be done easily with the right SD card . I dislike eyefi now but the toshiba version is quite nice I think.

Does the Fuij have dual card slots? Just occurred to me, as I'd look for that in a pro camera.
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The X-T2 has dual slots.

I think all of the X-T series have built in Wifi, don't need fancy cards.
 
Jelster said:
The X-T2 has dual slots.

I think all of the X-T series have built in Wifi, don't need fancy cards.
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good to know.
I have a lumix with build in wifi which does very nicely for preview and remote shooting.
However, it requires special functionality to be activated on the camera.
The wifi cards that I have can essentially transmit automatically every shot.
So I use them in the studio (for fun) and the shot comes up on my tablet a few seconds later (max 10 seconds) when fully activated, so that the model can see what's going on instead of losing the spot.
The wifi on the lumix can't do this, so I'd be interested if the Fuji does.
The downside is that is has greater power requirements.
 
DizMatt said:
good to know.
I have a lumix with build in wifi which does very nicely for preview and remote shooting.
However, it requires special functionality to be activated on the camera.
The wifi cards that I have can essentially transmit automatically every shot.
So I use them in the studio (for fun) and the shot comes up on my tablet a few seconds later (max 10 seconds) when fully activated, so that the model can see what's going on instead of losing the spot.
The wifi on the lumix can't do this, so I'd be interested if the Fuji does.
The downside is that is has greater power requirements.
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Latest firmware for the Fuji's allow wireless tethering :p
 
jonneymendoza said:
That's been fixed in last firmware! I was the one causing a fuss about focusing closed instead of wide open
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retested this today with FE 85mm f/1.8 and this is how it works

AF-S/DMF: The lens aperture opens up to acquire focus and once it locks-on it stops down to f-number.
AF-C: It opens up to acquire focus and once it locks-on it stops down. But for continuous focus it continues to track stopped down after acquiring initial focus which is stupid to put it lightly. Because if you are tracking at high f-number it hunts a lot after the initial focus acquisition since its trying track stopped down.

So yeah, screw Sony for anything professional that requires tracking till they can get basics right. Innovation is useless without dependability and having the basics sorted out. This is why canon sells and Sony sucks.
 
nandbytes said:
retested this today with FE 85mm f/1.8 and this is how it works

AF-S/DMF: The lens aperture opens up to acquire focus and once it locks-on it stops down to f-number.
AF-C: It opens up to acquire focus and once it locks-on it stops down. But for continuous focus it continues to track stopped down after acquiring initial focus which is stupid to put it lightly. Because if you are tracking at high f-number it hunts a lot after the initial focus acquisition since its trying track stopped down.

So yeah, screw Sony for anything professional that requires tracking till they can get basics right. Innovation is useless without dependability and having the basics sorted out. This is why canon sells and Sony sucks.
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Canon also sells more than nikon so whats nikons excuse? Look at the d850, i bet you the 5d4 will still outsell it lol
 
jonneymendoza said:
Canon also sells more than nikon so whats nikons excuse? Look at the d850, i bet you the 5d4 will still outsell it lol
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That's because canon got there first and captured a large market share. Many people are now invested in canon system will continue to use it.

But that wasn't my point. My point was Sony need to get their basics sorted.
 
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nandbytes said:
That's because canon got there first and captured a large market share. Many people are now invested in canon system will continue to use it.

But that wasn't my point. My point was Sony need to get their basics sorted.
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To be fair, if a product is good enough it'll sell regardless of marketing budget or market share.

Sony are relatively new in the full-frame professional mirrorless segment so sometimes even basics can be overlooked, sometimes Sony makes a real dogs dinner of something so simple.

To add balance, Nikon have had a string of marketing and QC problems, that must if cost them loads which given their longer history (decades vs years) shouldn't happen.

For the original poster, Canon to Sony..... I'd say it's the right move but I see mirrorless as the future.
 
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Riz_Guru said:
To be fair, if a product is good enough it'll sell regardless of marketing budget or market share.

Sony are relatively new in the full-frame professional mirrorless segment so sometimes even basics can be overlooked, sometimes Sony makes a real dogs dinner of something so simple.

To add balance, Nikon have had a string of marketing and QC problems, that must if cost them loads which given their longer history (decades vs years) shouldn't happen.

For the original poster, Canon to Sony..... I'd say it's the right move but I see mirrorless as the future.
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Oh please, basics of AF has nothing to with mirrorless or mirrors. It's basically makes sense to focus wide open regardless. Sony is not new to camera market. They have been in it at least since they bought Minolta. Focusing works just as it should on a-mount (always has done) even with their SLT models. In fact A7 series work fine with adapted lenses, but with native lenses they screwed up making it even more ridiculous.

Now I see no point in buying their 100-400GM. Because I won't be able to even use it properly. I really hope they have this fixed on A9.

Just because another manufacturer screwed up doesn't justify it for Sony. Two wrongs don't make a right :P
 
nandbytes said:
Oh please, basics of AF has nothing to with mirrorless or mirrors. It's basically makes sense to focus wide open regardless. Sony is not new to camera market. They have been in it at least since they bought Minolta. Focusing works just as it should on a-mount (always has done) even with their SLT models. In fact A7 series work fine with adapted lenses, but with native lenses they screwed up making it even more ridiculous.

Now I see no point in buying their 100-400GM. Because I won't be able to even use it properly. I really hope they have this fixed on A9.

Just because another manufacturer screwed up doesn't justify it for Sony. Two wrongs don't make a right :p
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I believe the reason behind this method of AF was do with Focus Shifting and it was only added via a later firmware, Sony's original firmware didn't exhibit this issue. What makes sense to you may not make sense to Sony / others but I agree with you that you'd think focusing wide open would be the best way to AF on subjects.
Forget Minolta or the A-mount as they are completely different model/systems with different focusing systems and I doubt the original poster will be interested in those.

As far as I was aware this issue was resolved on the Sony A7RII via the latest firmware and the Sony A9 came from factory as default.
@jonneymendoza might be able to confirm as he owns both, I haven't encountered the situation yet so cannot comment.

The 100-400GM is a beast of a lens and has had great feedback/reviews, but I agree, if you can't use it properly then that should factor in your buying decision but I have yet to hear of problems with this lens combination on the A7RII.
 
I'm not a pro but have made the jump twice! I had a 5DIII and went to the X-T2 but then went back to the 5DIII (I sold the original one so had to buy again and all lenses!). This was purely because I never gave it enough time and I didn't like the lack of support from Adobe etc on processing files. Now with the likes of Adobe support as well as Irrident it's excellent. I went back to the X-T2 and haven't looked back. I love it being small and light and the lenses being the same. It's good for me hill walking etc and using it in family scenarios where I often find the DSLR to be too intrusive and cumbersome due to it's size. Have you ever seen a guy called Kevin Mullins? He's a pro wedding photographer and he helped me make the jump the second time because his images are simply excellent with the Fuji camera. I believe if you took the same images with a DSLR or other mirrorless than a Fuji then I don't think you'd get the same effect. There's just something about the images from Fuji that make it special. If you're a pixel-peeper then I'd advise to test one before you do anything - the quality is excellent but pixel-peepers will notice the differences.

The X-T2 does have dual card slots BTW.

All the best with your decision.

https://www.kevinmullinsphotography.co.uk/
 
Riz_Guru said:
Forget Minolta or the A-mount as they are completely different model/systems with different focusing systems and I doubt the original poster will be interested in those.

As far as I was aware this issue was resolved on the Sony A7RII via the latest firmware and the Sony A9 came from factory as default.
@jonneymendoza might be able to confirm as he owns both, I haven't encountered the situation yet so cannot comment.

The 100-400GM is a beast of a lens and has had great feedback/reviews, but I agree, if you can't use it properly then that should factor in your buying decision but I have yet to hear of problems with this lens combination on the A7RII.
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You never know OP might be interested in A99M2. Makes for a nice halfway between mirrorless and DSLR

As I said above I tested it just yesterday with latest firmware and its not completely fixed for AF-C. A7RII the body still tries to track stopped down after initial focus acquisition with 85mm f1.8. I previously read reports of different lenses behaving differently, so may be @jonneymendoza can shed more light if he has more native lenses.

But if I can't track then what's the point of owning a native telephoto.
 
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nandbytes said:
You never know OP might be interested in A99M2. Makes for a nice halfway between mirrorless and DSLR

As I said above I tested it just yesterday with latest firmware and its not completely fixed for AF-C. A7RII the body still tries to track stopped down after initial focus acquisition with 85mm f1.8. I previously read reports of different lenses behaving differently, so may be @jonneymendoza can shed more light if he has more native lenses.

But if I can't track then what's the point of owning a native telephoto.
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In my eyes the A-mount is pretty much wrapped up so don't think its a good system to buy into expecting growth in the lens line-up for future bodies like the A99II.
Perhaps worth raising a support ticket with Sony to highlight the issue, maybe the lens needs a firmware update or perhaps the lens is designed to stop down for a technical reason.

I don't have the FE 100-400mm or the Sony A7RII to be able to test it out for you but @jonneymendoza does..... so perhaps he could test it out for you?
 
nandbytes said:
Oh please, basics of AF has nothing to with mirrorless or mirrors. It's basically makes sense to focus wide open regardless. Sony is not new to camera market. They have been in it at least since they bought Minolta. Focusing works just as it should on a-mount (always has done) even with their SLT models. In fact A7 series work fine with adapted lenses, but with native lenses they screwed up making it even more ridiculous.

Now I see no point in buying their 100-400GM. Because I won't be able to even use it properly. I really hope they have this fixed on A9.

Just because another manufacturer screwed up doesn't justify it for Sony. Two wrongs don't make a right :P
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You have not used the A9 and 100-400. This af problem is none existent. You can see the images I posted on the A9 thread using a tele converter which further decrease light gathering yet all my shots where bang on in focus and blooming fast tracking athletes running during the night with stadium lights on.
 
nandbytes said:
You never know OP might be interested in A99M2. Makes for a nice halfway between mirrorless and DSLR

As I said above I tested it just yesterday with latest firmware and its not completely fixed for AF-C. A7RII the body still tries to track stopped down after initial focus acquisition with 85mm f1.8. I previously read reports of different lenses behaving differently, so may be @jonneymendoza can shed more light if he has more native lenses.

But if I can't track then what's the point of owning a native telephoto.
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Does it really only af wide open on initial af? How do you that? I've tested it live doing a whole studio shoot and it nails focus using pdaf in my studio with the lights off and just using low powered modelling light.

Don't forget I was the first moaning about it as for my real world usage. It made the a7r2 useless for studio work. Now it's perfectly usable again and I always shoot in afc
 
jonneymendoza said:
You have not used the A9 and 100-400. This af problem is none existent. You can see the images I posted on the A9 thread using a tele converter which further decrease light gathering yet all my shots where bang on in focus and blooming fast tracking athletes running during the night with stadium lights on.
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I thought as much.... can't wait for more lenses this year :D
I am predicting the FE 135mm f1.8 GM and 400mm f2.8 GM come out next..... :)
 
There's tons of samples on A9 Facebook feed. Saw someone using same setup in a velodrome with cyclists. His images where mind blowing.
 
jonneymendoza said:
There's tons of samples on A9 Facebook feed. Saw someone using same setup in a velodrome with cyclists. His images where mind blowing.
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I have seen so many samples.. makes me wanna spash out on the 100-400mm but in reality I would rarely use it :(
 
jonneymendoza said:
Does it really only af wide open on initial af? How do you that? I've tested it live doing a whole studio shoot and it nails focus using pdaf in my studio with the lights off and just using low powered modelling light.

Don't forget I was the first moaning about it as for my real world usage. It made the a7r2 useless for studio work. Now it's perfectly usable again and I always shoot in afc
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Yep only for initial AF lock on at least with 85mm/1.8. I'll test it with 16-35/4 tonight.
Well have you ever tired tracking at f11? You should give it a go. Up to f5.6 it manages fairly well.
 
nandbytes said:
Yep only for initial AF lock on at least with 85mm/1.8. I'll test it with 16-35/4 tonight.
Well have you ever tired tracking at f11? You should give it a go. Up to f5.6 it manages fairly well.
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I didn't think the A7RII could track well at f11 as its AF system reverts to contrast/phase detect only and not the hybrid system? :)
 
Riz_Guru said:
I didn't think the A7RII could track well at f11 as its AF system reverts to contrast/phase detect only and not the hybrid system? :)
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The point is it should be tracking wide open so closing aperture down to any f-stop shouldn't matter.
 
nandbytes said:
Yep only for initial AF lock on at least with 85mm/1.8. I'll test it with 16-35/4 tonight.
Well have you ever tired tracking at f11? You should give it a go. Up to f5.6 it manages fairly well.
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Majority of my shots in studio are f8 or narrower.

My 100-400 with TC is at f8 and trust me that tracks things for fun. Set it to wide and its like the A9 is attached to your brain and knows what to track

Check this shot out.

somehow it knew to focus on the jumper!

IAAF-London-final-night-pt1-392.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr
 
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