Canon 400 2.8 IS II v Canon 600mm 4.0 II

Stephen Devine

Stephen Devine

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Ok so the question is in the title. I am getting in to sports photography a lot more seriously and will in the near future have a website to sell my photos etc. The business plan is to focus in the main on non professional sports with the exception of horse racing and cycling and sell the photos to parents, clubs, local newspapers etc. Obviously the dream is to eventually shoot pro stuff for an agency etc. I played rugby to a high level before having to retire with an injury so the first major 'in' I will have will be in rugby. At the moment and for the last two years I have been learning with a combination of different bodies/glass culmination in a Canon 600D and a 70-200 2.8 IS II, you can see some of my very recent photos in a thread here. I'm now in the very fortunate position that I have a sizeable amount of money to invest in something that began as a hobby. I have already decided that I will be investing in two second hand Canon 1 Dx's (hopefully at even more of a discount when the Mk II lands but that remains to be seen) and a super telephoto lens. I had fully decided on the Canon 400mm 2.8 IS II second hand but in the past 24 hours have had some doubts and wonder given that a lot of my sports will be field sports would the 600mm be a better option. It would seem to be that just having the option of attaching a 1.4x III converter to the 400mm making it a 560 f4 would pretty much give me the best of both worlds?

I suppose having typed the above this post has given me a chance to set out my own views, but I would love some input from the community here. In particular anyone who shoots field sports regularly what do you find is needed in terms of reach? Do you us use converters? If you have €15/16k to spend to set yourself up in sports where would you spend it?
 
Cheers for the reply Gary, I suppose just given the level of investment I want to make sure I have every angle covered off beforehand.
 
Stephen Devine said:
and will in the near future have a website to sell my photos etc. The business plan is to focus in the main on non professional sports with the exception of horse racing and cycling and sell the photos to parents, clubs, local newspapers etc.
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Well I make a living doing exactly that :)

Stephen Devine said:
Obviously the dream is to eventually shoot pro stuff for an agency etc.
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haha and go broke? why is it obviously ?


Stephen Devine said:
would the 600mm be a better option
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Definitely NOT the 600... too long for field sport like football or rugby.. usable but only gets you the other end.. would be too long for midfield and 70-200 too short.. also f4 pretty useless under floodlights at most events..


Stephen Devine said:
If you have €15/16k to spend to set yourself up in sports where would you spend it?
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Mine cost more than that :)
 
KIPAX said:
Well I make a living doing exactly that :)
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Brilliant I might ask for some more advice going forward :):)

KIPAX said:
haha and go broke? why is it obviously ?
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Ah I suppose I just aspire to photograph the big games and the easiest way in to that seems to be through agencies, I'm not going to go broke trying to do it but I will try everything to try and cover Six Nations games for example.

KIPAX said:
Definitely NOT the 600... too long for field sport like football or rugby.. usable but only gets you the other end.. would be too long for midfield and 70-200 too short.. also f4 pretty useless under floodlights at most events..
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That's exactly the kind of reply I was looking for, do you ever find yourself using an extender?

KIPAX said:
Mine cost more than that :)
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€3700 each for used 1DX's from B&H so that €7,400 and then €8,250 for a used 400 2.8 IS II. Will have to put some more in to branding etc.


Thanks for the reply I really appreciate it.
 
Stephen Devine said:
Ah I suppose I just aspire to photograph the big games and the easiest way in to that seems to be through agencies,
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I really hate peeing on peoples chips.. But you have to decide.. Do I want to make a living or do I want to be at big events.. From the above you seem to be more on the big events... Thats not how your going to make a living.. I can make more money at a kids football match than most can make photogrpahing a world cup final... Big games does not = big money.. what it equals is more photographers than ever before trying to get published in an ever decreasing market ..

Stephen Devine said:
That's exactly the kind of reply I was looking for, do you ever find yourself using an extender?
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Only time i use an extender is on a 70-200 at a small field game if 400 too long


Stephen Devine said:
€3700 each for used 1DX's from B&H so that €7,400 and then €8,250 for a used 400 2.8 IS II. Will have to put some more in to branding etc.
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I Have two 1dx.. a 400 2.8.. a 70-220 mk II, a 24-70 mkII ..A 135 F2 for those really dark places and a 17-40 rarely used... laptop and various bits and bats.. even a peli case costs a couple of hundred.. then a few hundred on insurance and masses of other hidden extras..


like i say.. not trying to put you off.. sports photogrpahy is a doable business.. but not if your dream is big events because there very slim pickings at those I am sorry to say... I do this full time and I wouldnt waste my time on big event.. some do and some do well.. but they have been doing it a long time... plus.. how many big events a week are there.. ?? yet you hae to make a living 52 weeks a year ?: )
 
KIPAX said:
I really hate peeing on peoples chips.. But you have to decide.. Do I want to make a living or do I want to be at big events.. From the above you seem to be more on the big events... Thats not how your going to make a living.. I can make more money at a kids football match than most can make photogrpahing a world cup final... Big games does not = big money.. what it equals is more photographers than ever before trying to get published in an ever decreasing market ..



Only time i use an extender is on a 70-200 at a small field game if 400 too long




I Have two 1dx.. a 400 2.8.. a 70-220 mk II, a 24-70 mkII ..A 135 F2 for those really dark places and a 17-40 rarely used... laptop and various bits and bats.. even a peli case costs a couple of hundred.. then a few hundred on insurance and masses of other hidden extras..


like i say.. not trying to put you off.. sports photogrpahy is a doable business.. but not if your dream is big events because there very slim pickings at those I am sorry to say... I do this full time and I wouldnt waste my time on big event.. some do and some do well.. but they have been doing it a long time... plus.. how many big events a week are there.. ?? yet you hae to make a living 52 weeks a year ?: )
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I do appreciate all of that and don't worry you're not going to put me off. I think it's a pretty bad outlook not to aspire to something bigger than where you set out/currently are, that's my prerogative on it, I accept your view is different but there you go. If I'm wrong and it doesn't work out you can say you told me so. As for the gear I have the 70-200, the laptop, the software, the cases etc already. I will add more gear as things progress but I think from a base investment 16k is a good start.
 
Stephen Devine said:
I do appreciate all of that and don't worry you're not going to put me off. I think it's a pretty bad outlook not to aspire to something bigger than where you set out/currently are, that's my prerogative on it, I accept your view is different but there you go. If I'm wrong and it doesn't work out you can say you told me so. As for the gear I have the 70-200, the laptop, the software, the cases etc already. I will add more gear as things progress but I think from a base investment 16k is a good start.
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Theres a minty 18k shutter count 1DX on a facebook group for £2750
 
Stephen Devine said:
I think it's a pretty bad outlook not to aspire to something bigger than where you set out/currently are.
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I agree.. I aspire to earn more money.. you aspire to be at bigger games :)

Good luck.. happy to answer any questions :)
 
KIPAX said:
I agree.. I aspire to earn more money.. you aspire to be at bigger games :)

Good luck.. happy to answer any questions :)
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Yup, done all that, Internationals, Cup Finals, 4 Nations, World Cup Finals, will probably make more money from covering a Juniors game this morning selling prints to parents
 
400mm is ii for a 1dx is ideal as long as you have a 70-200 on the other body for close work
It's a big bold step to invest that much in the gear.
Just a suggestion, how about a 7d mk 2 and 300mm f2.8 as one combo if you are going to be doing mostly non pro events? More of those are in daylight and you can generally get closer so you always switch to the 1dx when you run out of light on the 7d.
Granted we would all like to shoot with a pair of 1dx and I get the chance to borrow the 1dx and 400mm combo sometimes for events but buying them is a different matter. The 7d mk2 will give you enough quality and easily outstrips my talent
Once you get the business building up you can always chop the 300 in for the 400 as used prices are pretty good
 
I was using a 600/4 earlier in the season. It was great for cele shots at the other end and nice when then ran back towards you.

However the 400/2.8 is the way to go. With the 600 your field of view is too narrow and you can't get the whole goal in view at the far end.
 
Depends on what sports/grounds your going to work at. Cricket you would tend towards a 600. Football a 400, Rugby may depend on dead ball area. Some are wide like here in NZ where a 500 is the go, and some a very narrow like the league grounds up north.
 
pope said:
Depends on what sports/grounds your going to work at. Cricket you would tend towards a 600. Football a 400, .
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you generally dont need to be wide open for cricket so a 400 and 1,4 tc is the answer.. ..be a little silly to have 600 for cricket and too long for other sports... IMHO
 
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