Campaign! I should be able to photograph my kids

[Jamer]

Every time I want to film or photograph my kids, whether its at the school athletics or if they are performing on a stage your told you cant! why not?? It's not like there are other kids walking around in skimpy costumes or naked, this is absolutely pathetic!

We should be able to capture and keep these precious moments forever, without the fear of being stigmatized and frowned upon like we are some sort of paedophile.

I am starting a campaign as we will have no memories of our children when they get older.

Even when you do film or photograph other people look at you as if your some sort of threat.
I think that we should challenge all schools and authorities who prevent us recording these precious memories of our loved ones.


Please sign our petition if you want to have your "denied memories" restored!

PETITION HERE

 

[Pete B]

Why do they tell you that you can't take photos?

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ction/practical_application/taking_photos.pdf

 

[lawrie29]

No problems at my school.
Even had the eldest coming home and asking if the school can have copies of some of the photos I took of the nativity, as they didn't get any.

 

[Jamer]

Why do they tell you that you can't take photos?

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ction/practical_application/taking_photos.pdf

Well they usually give some cock and ball story about data protection(Not covered by the act if for personal use) or child protection, usual non existent law.

 

[Jamer]

No problems at my school.
Even had the eldest coming home and asking if the school can have copies of some of the photos I took of the nativity, as they didn't get any.

Some schools are okay while others will not allow it at all. Take a look at the Blog HERE you will see all the comments from various people, some of them are quite sad as people have lost grand children and not got any memories of them in some cases.

 

[Pete B]

Well they usually give some cock and ball story about data protection(Not covered by the act if for personal use) or child protection, usual non existent law.

Tell em to call the police or give you a detention, take em anyway.

 

[lawrie29]

I know not all do.

It is worth seeing the headteacher and asking why. If you have just one child that is "at risk" with social services, then they are not allowed to be in photos at it can put them at risk. An example is where an abusive parent has been denied access and the family has moved to a new area. Whilst unlikely, a photo appearing anywhere online, good be seen by the abuser and allow them to make the connection to the location. So in this instance, the school may well not allow any photos as it then does not highlite this one child, rather than saying that you can take photos at class 1,2,3 and 4's assemble, but not at class 5's.

And whilst not ideal, I have to agree with this law.

however, I would have thought(and am no expert) that there is not many children that this applies to, so most schools should allow togging.

 

[Jamer]

Tell em to call the police or give you a detention, take em anyway.

I always do Pete, but sometimes other parents start staring at you the second you get your camera out, like you some sort of criminal, that's the society we live in. Sports day and school nativity plays and productions are the worst in my experience.

 

[lawrie29]

Well they usually give some cock and ball story about data protection(Not covered by the act if for personal use) or child protection, usual non existent law.

See above post, there is a law that allows them to stop people takng photos.

 

[Jamer]

I know not all do.

It is worth seeing the headteacher and asking why. If you have just one child that is "at risk" with social services, then they are not allowed to be in photos at it can put them at risk. An example is where an abusive parent has been denied access and the family has moved to a new area. Whilst unlikely, a photo appearing anywhere online, good be seen by the abuser and allow them to make the connection to the location. So in this instance, the school may well not allow any photos as it then does not highlite this one child, rather than saying that you can take photos at class 1,2,3 and 4's assemble, but not at class 5's.

And whilst not ideal, I have to agree with this law.

however, I would have thought(and am no expert) that there is not many children that this applies to, so most schools should allow togging.

I am all for protecting kids, but some of these do gooders are just paranoid and over the top. As you say, when it's time to take pictures, any vulnerable kids can avoid being photographed.

Some people are worried that the kids pictures will end up on facebook, so what? what's the big deal with that, my daughter and all of her mates take pictures of each other at school and upload them to their facebook accounts all the time! you can't stop kids being kids, no law that covers that eh

 

[Jamer]

See above post, there is a law that allows them to stop people takng photos.

Which part of the law do you refer to? I have been campaigning a lot recently so I am curious now, if your referring to "at risk" kids we have covered that. And as already mentioned, that would be a very small amount if any in most of the smaller schools.

 

[lawrie29]

Yes, I am referring to children under a Child Protection Order. However, if I was a headteacher and had one child under a CPO, then I would stop all photography of things like plays to be sure.

But in most instances this should not be a problem. If you do some searches on here, you will find this is a well discussed topic, which crops up every now and then. The best approach is to speak to the people involved, the daily mail effect doesn't work in reverse.

However, it is worth noting that whilst on private property (like a school, cricket pitch, football club, shopping centre) you can be asked not to take photos for any reason at all, and there is nowt you can do about it.

 

[Jamer]

Yes, I am referring to children under a Child Protection Order. However, if I was a headteacher and had one child under a CPO, then I would stop all photography of things like plays to be sure.

But in most instances this should not be a problem. If you do some searches on here, you will find this is a well discussed topic, which crops up every now and then. The best approach is to speak to the people involved, the daily mail effect doesn't work in reverse.

However, it is worth noting that whilst on private property (like a school, cricket pitch, football club, shopping centre) you can be asked not to take photos for any reason at all, and there is nowt you can do about it.

Well yes that is true. I am just highlighting the fact the parents and grand parents who want to take genuine pictures for the family albums are being denied that right in a lot of cases. What are their rights? so the whole school has to miss out because of maybe one child? surely at the end of any production a simple announcement stating that if anyone not wanting their children photographed to remove them from the set as this is the time for family photographs, "Common Sense" is the key word here and often missing.

As I said earlier one grand parent has posted that she lost her 10 year old grand child to cancer and has hardly any photographs of him to look back on, now this is terrible. It was not like this when I was at school, parents would often ask someone who is videoing if that can get a copy etc... Paedophiles were around then too!

 

[lawrie29]

so the whole school has to miss out because of maybe one child?



As I said earlier one grand parent has posted that she lost her 10 year old grand child to cancer and has hardly any photographs of him to look back on, !

Yes, I would rather not have pics of a school play, than maybe one of my childs classmates get abused because of it thank you. Thats why the law is there.


I feel for the grandparent, but you can take plenty of photographs away from school.

I'm not saying that what your doing is not a good idea, but you need to stay away from the whole everyones rights issues and turn it back to educating the people that matter so that they change there views on it. And start with the daily mail, who have brain washed half the nation.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

I regularly work with young people for both video and photo, in a professional freelance capacity...

Quite often at school plays, at least videoing, is often a restriction of the company producing a professional DVD - they will attend and film the show for no upfront fee, and give the school a %age of takings, in return for that clause.


Most of the time though, yes, this is the Daily Mail hand wringers going 'you know how it is these days' when actually, the only people with the problem is THEM.

There are genuine issues with some children, however they are few and far between. I did recently have to reshoot a school promotional picture to be printed huge in reception because (by sod's law...) a particular child smack bang in the middle of the shot DID have an issue, and I'd been wrongly informed by the school that they were all fine.... grr.

Another issue during drama performances is that if the audience paparazzi is going on and flashing, then that would be offputting to the children performing (and make any video look bad)... probably better instead to have a 'photo call' at the end tbh...

Since when would a photo of a CLOTHED child be of any use to some strange pervert? lol. Yes, ban photography at the school swimming competition, probably for the best...

and in any case, most abuse is carried out by friends and family, rather than some unrelated person...


I can't put into words how much I hate the daily mail...... grr.

 

[Stumpy]

Bit harsh may be but if its a minority of kids at risk, then they shouldn't be included in the school play. Sorry but it spoils it for them all. I have no photos of my son in high school because there "May" be a problem with one on show. Then take the little b****r OFF SHOW! Its not rocket science is it?

And as for fully clothed shots of kids turning perverts on, they must be coming in their pants every day watching kids TV! (Ooh that Tracey Beaker! and Cooor iCarly!!!). Are we going to ban them? No didn't think so, too many adverts and toy tie ins surrounding them and profits to be made.

Cynical, me? You bet I am, its the way the world made me.
Rollover and tickle my tum any one?

 

[Jamer]

Bit harsh may be but if its a minority of kids at risk, then they shouldn't be included in the school play. Sorry but it spoils it for them all. I have no photos of my son in high school because there "May" be a problem with one on show. Then take the little b****r OFF SHOW! Its not rocket science is it?

And as for fully clothed shots of kids turning perverts on, they must be coming in their pants every day watching kids TV! (Ooh that Tracey Beaker! and Cooor iCarly!!!). Are we going to ban them? No didn't think so, too many adverts and toy tie ins surrounding them and profits to be made.

Cynical, me? You bet I am, its the way the world made me.
Rollover and tickle my tum any one?

I wouldn't go as far as excluding any child from taking part, however, I see your point. Simple solution is just announce it's time to take pictures at the end, as for flash photographing putting the kids off, this was never a problem when I was at school, bloody World is paranoid!

Makes me laugh, every week LIVE on national television you see footballers walking onto the pitch holding hands with young kids in their football kit for the whole country to see as well as 70,000 spectators, yet you cannot photograph your own kids at your local school, with maybe 100 people present, this is absolutely ridiculous and beyond belief in my opinion.

Yet again an ever oppressive ruling elite and corrupt justice system trying to run our lives with pure idiocy, and lacking in any common sense while doing this. The harsh reality is that with long range zoom cameras it enables perverts to snap away without the subjects consenting or even knowing about it. Kind of puts the kibosh on anyone having an objection or enforcement of a law forbidding it, doesn't it!

 

[POAH]

no problems at my son's school - the positively encourage photo taking

 

[tris101]

I think society is sad these days, if you see a child lost in a supermarket or shopping centre adults are afraid to approach them and help for fear of being branded a pervert.

You should be able and feel comfortable to take photos of your own children, their childhood does not last very long and you should be able to preserve the memories.

 

[Byker28i]

Yes, I am referring to children under a Child Protection Order. However, if I was a headteacher and had one child under a CPO, then I would stop all photography of things like plays to be sure.

Just out of interest, could you point me at the relevant part of the Chjildrens Act 1989 that covers this.

 

[Jamer]

I think society is sad these days, if you see a child lost in a supermarket or shopping centre adults are afraid to approach them and help for fear of being branded a pervert.

You should be able and feel comfortable to take photos of your own children, their childhood does not last very long and you should be able to preserve the memories.

I could not agree more with the above post. Spot on

 

[Jamer]

Just out of interest, could you point me at the relevant part of the Chjildrens Act 1989 that covers this.

He is not referring to the Childrens Act as that says it is illegal to take indecent images of children. The post refers to a Child Protection Order, I would also like to see where it says about photography, so a link would be useful.

 

[emmamc]

There's a pretty interesting history of photographers being branded as perverts or pedophiles because of pictures that they've taken of children, no matter how harmless they may be.

Sally Mann is probably the most famous, contemporary photographer to have ended up as a big case example of this, you can read a little bit about it on her Wikipedia page. (read the early career section)

The case is obviously hugely different to this example, as she was photographing her kids at home, and they are naked in many of the pictures, but her arguments were similar in that, as a mother, she wanted keepsakes of her kids so why wasn't it appropriate to photograph them naturally at home.

This really divided opinion at the time, and I'm sure that it would divide opinion here.

I agree that as a whole, society is far more protective of children than it's even been before, sometimes to the point of absurdity.

 

[Jamer]

I fully believe in protecting vulnerable children but I also believe in protecting the parents rights too. It's really about finding an amicable balance that works for all, don't just ban decent law abiding people from capturing their most treasured moments and memories, that's unfair, it would not be difficult to achieve if you read some of the above posts, common sense, that's all.
Petition Here

 

[Dervish99]

All parents at our school have to sign consent forms to say they are happy to have their kids photo'd at events, if a single parent refuses to sign for whatever reason, then there is no photography. i recently shot some publicity images at a local school and was given a list of pupils who were not allowed to be in the images for "security" reasons apparently.

 

[Jamer]

All parents at our school have to sign consent forms to say they are happy to have their kids photo'd at events, if a single parent refuses to sign for whatever reason, then there is no photography. i recently shot some publicity images at a local school and was given a list of pupils who were not allowed to be in the images for "security" reasons apparently.

What security reasons? This is a joke, I would of challenged that.

 

[Tenubracon]

I regularly work with young people for both video and photo, in a professional freelance capacity...

Quite often at school plays, at least videoing, is often a restriction of the company producing a professional DVD - they will attend and film the show for no upfront fee, and give the school a %age of takings, in return for that clause.


I can't put into words how much I hate the daily mail...... grr.

I'm not criticising you here, but to me, that is much more of an intrusion than someone taking photos for personal reasons. The school allows a complete stranger to video our children for a fee, but the actual parents can't. This is hypocritical and implies that they're all for 'child protection', except when there's a few quid coming their way.

Totally agree about the Daily Mail, by the way!

 

[lawrie29]

What security reasons? This is a joke, I would of challenged that.

maybe....

 

[lawrie29]

Child Protection Order. .

 

[KIPAX]

Petition Here

who is the petition going to.. i cant see anything that states who you are petitioning? what is the outcome you want.. apart from being allowed? I mean an actual outcome?

 

[lawrie29]

i get that trolling feeling, ignoring this thread now.

 

[srichards]

If there is a child under a CPO or parents refuse then it's simple. Exclude them from the play or whatever so that the other parents can have the memories. Minority wishes are dangerous things to continually accommodate.

Same CPO children are captured on CCTV hundreds of times. They go out in public where they could be photographed and identified. Unless they go round with a bag on their head they are going to be found at some point in all probability if the abusive parent is determined enough.

Some schools also use it as an excuse to sell parents over priced videos and photos a they know no one else will have them.

 

[jomantha]

it annoys the hell out of me, given that the school doesnt sell them, but has banned parents from taking them, but then they upload them to the school website anyway???

 

[Byker28i]

He is not referring to the Childrens Act as that says it is illegal to take indecent images of children. The post refers to a Child Protection Order, I would also like to see where it says about photography, so a link would be useful.

Actually the Child protection orders come under Part 5 (sections 43-52) of the Childrens Protection Act 1989
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/41/contents

As this point of protecting children under protection orders is often thrown at photographers, I'd just like to know exactly where the legislation is that says this. Sure it's common sense to protect the child, but someone show me where its' written into this countries legislation please.

 

[Jamer]

who is the petition going to.. i cant see anything that states who you are petitioning? what is the outcome you want.. apart from being allowed? I mean an actual outcome?

Yes, I need to add a few more details to the petition. The Education Minister and copies to a few others. The outcome will hopefully be an acceptable agreement and also strike a balance that all concerned can adopt. At the end of the day it is not acceptable to tarnish good decent people as some type of criminal every time they get their camera's out. People should not feel at all guilty, as many currently do. This can be achieved without to much effort if common sense prevails.

 

[KIPAX]

Yes, I need to add a few more details to the petition. Probably The Education Minister and copies to a few others. The outcome will hopefully be an acceptable agreement and also strike a balance that all concerned can adopt.

Sorry I know your intentions are good.. but thats what we would could half cocked.. you ahve started a petition with no idea who your going to present it to and no idea what outcome you want ?

At the end of the day it is not acceptable to tarnish good decent people as some type of criminal every time they get their camera's out. People should not feel at all guilty, as many currently do. This can be achieve without to much effort if common sense prevails.

Yes we all know that I dont think many if anyone would disagree wiht you...

 

[hepburn]

.

 

[Daryl]

Lawrie is right. I shoot shed loads of schools. Plays . Nativities etc. We do prospectus and web site images. The scholl gives us a list of who is not tobe in any image.

As Lawrie said. some have moved from other areas because of violence and obuse.

It's for a reason. some schools just do a blanket 'No Photograph or Videos' to save the hassle.

Any way you guys are missing a biz oppertunity here...

Offer to do the Cast on a dress rehersal and have all the cast images mounted and presented for the parents come on the Show night.

Much better done properly than on stage with the front row heads in the way and naff painted props in the background draped over Gym equipment.

Earning op here guys and gals.

 

[Jamer]

Sorry I know your intentions are good.. but thats what we would could half cocked.. you ahve started a petition with no idea who your going to present it to and no idea what outcome you want ?






Yes we all know that I dont think many if anyone would disagree wiht you...

Don't apologise just explain to me your idea's. The petition is only the start, plenty of time to decide it's destination to be fair.

 

[Daryl]

Big Rob said this a while back.....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11945081

Nativity photos not against law, says data watchdog

Parents should be free to photograph their children in nativity plays, the Information Commissioner has said.

The advice was issued after a number of schools banned photography on their premises to protect pupils who were adopted or in foster care.

Earlier this week a father complained he was threatened with arrest at a school in Leicestershire.

Information Commissioner Christopher Graham said such photos did not breach the Data Protection Act.

BBC technology correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones says it is a common experience at this time of year for proud parents trying to take pictures of their children performing in nativity plays to be be told by teachers that photography is banned.

'Common sense'

The Information Commissioner's Office has released guidance for schools after receiving numerous queries from parents.

The regulator said photos for personal use were not covered by the Data Protection Act.

Fear of breaching the law should not be used to to stop people taking pictures or videos, he added.

Mr Graham said: "Having a child perform at a school play or a festive concert is a very proud moment for parents and is understandably a memory that many want to capture on camera.

"It is disappointing to hear that the myth that such photos are forbidden by the Data Protection Act still prevails in some schools."

He added: "A common sense approach is needed. Clearly, photographs simply taken for a family album are exempt from data protection laws.

"Armed with our guidance, parents should feel free to snap away this Christmas and stand ready to challenge any schools or councils that say 'bah, humbug' to a bit of festive fun."