Buying in to m4/3 now?

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bailout

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What do people think of the wisdom of buying into m4/3 at the moment?

I have dabbled in photography over many years but never that seriously. My last camera (fuji XF1) packed up some years ago but I never replaced it as over recent years I haven't had the time to use it. For the past 7 years or so I have been a full time carer for my parents. My father died 18 months ago and hence I now have a bit more time and have been thinking of buying another camera. It may give me a bit more reason and incentive to get out more for walks/cycle rides that I haven't been able to do for many years.

Having looked at the market I think m4/3 would probably suit me the best. I don't have a very large budget as my only income is carer's allowance and the level of my photography and the amount of use I am likely to get from it means that it isn't worth me spending a huge amount. Hence I am looking buying 2nd hand and I don't need the latest models.

The smaller size of m4/3 plus lenses is attractive and I don't think the limitations of the smaller sensor system will be a problem for me. It has a full range of lenses that would cover anything I am likely to want in the foreseeable future.

One concern is what the future of the system is with the changes at Olympus but it seems to me that the camera market is changing so much that looking long term on any system is impossible.

Would appreciate any thoughts.
 
I'd say go for it.

If you pick up the camera and a couple of lenses that you need for your type of photography, you can see how you get on with it. After (e.g.) 6 months, you can then revisit. If you decide you need something bigger/better, you can resell your 2nd hand kit and probably recoup quite a bit of the purchase value and then make a new buying decision based on your 6 month experience.

You say that you can get all the lenses you want for the foreseeable future, which means you can future proof yourself today. If the camera breaks, you can always buy another second hand one - same for lenses.

OM Systems (or whatever they are called) still seem committed to M4/3 so I think you're as safe as anyone can be in these times.

Just my opinion though! I'm sure others will have theirs.
 
I would be tempted with a used LX100 and see how it goes. Not a big commitment but it will give you some idea of the m43 system without shelling out on lenses.

Just a thought.
 
Who can say what will happen with any system? Even if Oly and Panasonic pull out of MFT there'll be enough gear out there to keep people going for a very long time so I personally wouldn't worry about the system in the long term too much.

One appeal is definitely the size of the camera and lens combination and this is possibly at its most obvious with longer lenses. I'm more into primes from 24 to 50mm so a MFT camera and lens isn't significantly smaller than my FF Sony A7 and a prime in that range as neither the MFT or A7 options would be pocketable and would need to be in a bag and if I'm taking a bag I might was well take my A7. My Panasonic GX80 and 45-150mm is a small package though.

I think the Panasonic GX80 and GX9 are both well worth a serious look if you're thinking of buying into MFT, I have both and I do like the RF style cameras.
 
The main advantage of olympus ( if you buy wisely ) is weight ,weatherproofing ,and cost . I changed due to heart issues but now wish I had done it sooner .. my general use camera and lens for birding weighs all up 2kg and gives me good i.s and sharp pictures ..why not look through the olympus thread in this section ,results speak better than words
 
As above, totally agree it is worth getting into if you like the weight and size advantages. I have Nikon APS-C and Olympus gear, and I can't remember when I last used the Nikon. OM Systems do seem to want to build on the asset they've bought
 
I think it's a brilliant system - and I would advise no one to get cold feet. The gear is excellent, there's a ton to choose from - what could possibly not be good -enough about that?
 
M43 will be around at least for another couple years if not longer.
There are new m43 bodies coming out this year which extends thier life by at least two years.

I'd only start worrying when there are no new lenses or bodies both which are coming out albeit at a sightly reduced rate.
But look at Pentax they are still going and will probably keep going for a while, imagine m43 will be the same.
 
It sounds as if a compact camera might do the job. Canon, Sony, Panasonic, they all have a good range to choose from.
 
Feature wise M43 cameras are up there with the best at a price point far lower than the big boys. Image quality is OK and to be honest is fine for the average person - it's only when blowing images up really large or shooting at high ISO that the image lacks against a larger sensor.

Also, if you get kit you need now, then it makes no difference what happens with the system. You'll already have your gear, and there will be enough 2nd hand around to keep you going if you need.
 
Doing wildlife with a olympus and a 100-400 which is a f6.3 lens two things come to mind .one is high I.s.o i quite often have to shoot at high numbers and with correct p.p iso 6400 is not a problem , look at my recent Robin on a log shot in the olympus thread ..the other advantage is that in 3 + years of ownership and even using 100-400 lens sometimes with a 1.4 tc fitted I have so far never had to use a tripod or monopod and still produce sharp images consistently .
 
I only have m4/3 gear and likely will never change it for anything else, i'm getting older and can't be bothered
It serves my purposes and the newer 20mp sensor produces a very nice A3 print at 300dpi.
In camera stabilisation is excellent and makes all the difference to me with a less than steady grip.

Would I buy into as a new system especially as a younger person, probably not with the smaller FF mirrorless cameras out there.
Saying that I would be hard pushed to sell my GX9 and 12-45, might even buy a GX10 if they ever make one.
One other thing that would be a huge loss is the superb Olympus 12-100 lens
Never found anything of any make to beat them for performance and versatility.
Then we have the G9, what a great camera for the price, again hard to find fault with it really.

You know what maybe I would buy into it if I were starting out, sold it to myself there.
 
nandbytes said:
M43 will be around at least for another couple years if not longer.
There are new m43 bodies coming out this year which extends thier life by at least two years.

I'd only start worrying when there are no new lenses or bodies both which are coming out albeit at a sightly reduced rate.
But look at Pentax they are still going and will probably keep going for a while, imagine m43 will be the same.
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Exactly, the new GH series, all the OM series, and hopefully the G9 upgrade too. Last thing I'd worry about!
 
tijuana taxi said:
I only have m4/3 gear and likely will never change it for anything else, i'm getting older and can't be bothered
It serves my purposes and the newer 20mp sensor produces a very nice A3 print at 300dpi.
In camera stabilisation is excellent and makes all the difference to me with a less than steady grip.

Would I buy into as a new system especially as a younger person, probably not with the smaller FF mirrorless cameras out there.
Saying that I would be hard pushed to sell my GX9 and 12-45, might even buy a GX10 if they ever make one.
One other thing that would be a huge loss is the superb Olympus 12-100 lens
Never found anything of any make to beat them for performance and versatility.
Then we have the G9, what a great camera for the price, again hard to find fault with it really.

You know what maybe I would buy into it if I were starting out, sold it to myself there.
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Absolutly I'd vote for buying into it! Pixel for pixel, and lets remember we're talking in the real world here. Micro 4/3 is capable of delivering stunning quality across their range.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

@woof woof the GX80 is one model I am looking at. I was a bit put off by reading some reviews that said that the viewfinder was very small. I understand that the design of the camera means the viewfinder isn't going to be a big as on some cameras but I would need it to be reasonably usable as I wouldn't want to be using the rear screen all the time. How do you find it?

One thing I am not sure about with the m4/3 system is how compatible, if at all, the lenses and bodies are from the 2 manufacturers. That is, can I use an Olympus lens on a Panasonic body and vice versa? If so do they work with full functionality? In particular I was thinking about the dual IS that I believe both now have. If using a dual IS lens on a dual IS body from the other manufacturer will it work?
 
Dual and/or sync IS isn't cross compatible.
The lenses and cameras work well together apart from a couple of very minor things.
 
bailout said:
Thanks for all the replies.

@woof woof the GX80 is one model I am looking at. I was a bit put off by reading some reviews that said that the viewfinder was very small. I understand that the design of the camera means the viewfinder isn't going to be a big as on some cameras but I would need it to be reasonably usable as I wouldn't want to be using the rear screen all the time. How do you find it?

One thing I am not sure about with the m4/3 system is how compatible, if at all, the lenses and bodies are from the 2 manufacturers. That is, can I use an Olympus lens on a Panasonic body and vice versa? If so do they work with full functionality? In particular I was thinking about the dual IS that I believe both now have. If using a dual IS lens on a dual IS body from the other manufacturer will it work?
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There are a number of questions over the EVF and I'll try and list them all.

Size. I wear glasses so when I use the camera my eye isn't right up against the eyepiece and is instead set back a bit so for me the EVF looks rather big. Without glasses and placing my eye closer to the eyepiece there's a tunnel effect. So, I suppose it all depends on how close your eye is to the EVF.

These Panasonic cameras use a field sequential EVF which displays the colours in turn hopefully so fast that you don't notice. I don't see any down side to this but some people see a rainbow or tearing effect when panning. I don't.

The main issue I have is that I can't get the EVF to look clear and sharp all over. That may be because I wear glasses and have my eye further away, I don't know but it does help to try and look directly thought the middle. I can get most of the frame ok but the top/bottom will be slightly out. If I think about this and look for it it's a problem I can clearly and quickly see but in use and trying to be more like a normal person and not a finnicky geek I quickly forget about it and it's not a problem even when looking at the settings at the top and bottom of the EVF so I'm not sure how much of a real world problem this really is.

Some reviewers say that the Panasonic EVF's are too bright and have too much contrast but I've never really understood this as if you go into the settings you can adjust it how you want.

We do have one happy MFT user on this site who swapped his FF Sony A7c for a GX9 and he said he thinks that the GX9 has the better EVF.

Lens wise, as above. I have both Panasonic and Olympus lenses and I've never had an issue.

Good luck choosing :D
 
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bailout said:
@woof woof the GX80 is one model I am looking at. I was a bit put off by reading some reviews that said that the viewfinder was very small. I understand that the design of the camera means the viewfinder isn't going to be a big as on some cameras but I would need it to be reasonably usable as I wouldn't want to be using the rear screen all the time. How do you find it?
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The GX80 is my go-to camera. I never use the viewfinder, I have it turned off, I use the rear screen that can be tilted up or down.

Not for everyone, I know, but it's the way I like to do it.

EDIT to add: it's not because I don't like the VF, it's just ... after a lifetime of SLRs, I got a 1 inch compact with no VF, and the habit stuck.
 
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d00d said:
after a lifetime of SLRs, I got a 1 inch compact with no VF, and the habit stuck.
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I am the reverse. My last compact didn't have a viewfinder and I found it annoying having to use the rear screen all the time. I find isolating the view feels more natural in composing the shot without being distracted. I also find it helps with holding the camera steady. If I had the choice I would choose which one to use depending on the situation and what I felt like.

@woof woof Many thanks for writing all that, it is very helpful. As I said above I want the viewfinder to be good enough to compose through and be able to see the elements of the shot. It sounds from what you have written as if the GX80 would be good enough for that even if it would be nice if it were bigger.

Thanks for the info on the lenses. So choosing Panasonic or Olympus to start with isn't committing to that manufacturer exclusively.
 
bailout said:
I am the reverse. My last compact didn't have a viewfinder and I found it annoying having to use the rear screen all the time. I find isolating the view feels more natural in composing the shot without being distracted. I also find it helps with holding the camera steady. If I had the choice I would choose which one to use depending on the situation and what I felt like.
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Yeah, I'm sure most would agree with you on that.

But I like to wear a wrist strap and look down at the flipped up screen. Occasionally I have trouble seeing the AF area so I have the GX80 configured so a touch of the Fn1 button enhances it bold & yellow.
 
I am the person to whom @woof woof was referring regarding my opinion that the GX9 finder was (slightly ) better than the Sony A7C. This is true. I am a border-line specs user in that sometimes I wear them and sometimes don’t. It’s really a question of simply getting used to it. And, I have never experienced the streaking effect.

FWIW I no longer own the GX9. I bought it to prove to myself that a return to m4/3 would be of benefit to me, which it does. So I acquired an Oly E-M1 Mk2, and have subsequently sold the GX9. Not because it was a bad camera but that it was simply redundant.

I still have an elderly Panasonic LX100 for casual use, and it still can produce stellar results. This also uses an m4/3 sensor but slightly cropped. I am convinced that m4/3 has a strong future. Oh, and I have a clutch of Panasonic lenses which I use on my Oly.
 
If it helps too, I recall that the LUMIX G9 has allegedly the best EVF on micro-4/3 - I think it’s definitely the largest anyway!
 
bailout said:
I am the reverse. My last compact didn't have a viewfinder and I found it annoying having to use the rear screen all the time. I find isolating the view feels more natural in composing the shot without being distracted. I also find it helps with holding the camera steady. If I had the choice I would choose which one to use depending on the situation and what I felt like.

@woof woof Many thanks for writing all that, it is very helpful. As I said above I want the viewfinder to be good enough to compose through and be able to see the elements of the shot. It sounds from what you have written as if the GX80 would be good enough for that even if it would be nice if it were bigger.

Thanks for the info on the lenses. So choosing Panasonic or Olympus to start with isn't committing to that manufacturer exclusively.
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I think the evf's are more than good enough just for composition and they are IMO perfectly useable and in low light they allow you to see things that just can not be seen by eye never mind with the unaided ovf of a dslr which isn't as good as the naked eye.

Olympus seems to get the most attention but way back when I first bought into MFT I went for Panasonic and have stuck with them for a couple of reasons, firstly I like the more anonymous design which is IMO less obviously styled then the more retro Olympus cameras and in my mind therefore more likely to be unnoticed and ignored by other people and secondly because in the case of the RF styled cameras they're significantly cheaper than the Olympus offering.

Image quality wise these cameras should all be pretty much indistinguishable from Panasonic to Olympus as they all AFAIK share the same either 16 or 20mp sensors.
 
One of the reasons I went for Panasonic, over Olympus, was the menu system makes more sense.
 
d00d said:
One of the reasons I went for Panasonic, over Olympus, was the menu system makes more sense.
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The menu systems of most cameras are confusing when you first use them, but once you've been through them once or twice they're not a problem. That said, with the Olympus E-M1ii at least, I've managed to set the camera up so that the only time I open a menu is to format a card.
 
woof woof said:
I think the evf's are more than good enough just for composition and they are IMO perfectly useable and in low light they allow you to see things that just can not be seen by eye never mind with the unaided ovf of a dslr which isn't as good as the naked eye.

Olympus seems to get the most attention but way back when I first bought into MFT I went for Panasonic and have stuck with them for a couple of reasons, firstly I like the more anonymous design which is IMO less obviously styled then the more retro Olympus cameras and in my mind therefore more likely to be unnoticed and ignored by other people and secondly because in the case of the RF styled cameras they're significantly cheaper than the Olympus offering.

Image quality wise these cameras should all be pretty much indistinguishable from Panasonic to Olympus as they all AFAIK share the same either 16 or 20mp sensors.
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When I moved back to m4/3 it was a toss-up between the E-M1 and the G9. Swings and roundabouts. Certainly Panasonic's RF-style cameras are nicer to use than Olys. But then I dislike the name "Lumix". Makes it sound "toy-ish". Irrational, I know. :D And I seldom photograph wherever there are other human beings. So standing out isn't a problem.
 
Stephen L said:
When I moved back to m4/3 it was a toss-up between the E-M1 and the G9. Swings and roundabouts. Certainly Panasonic's RF-style cameras are nicer to use than Olys. But then I dislike the name "Lumix". Makes it sound "toy-ish". Irrational, I know. :D And I seldom photograph wherever there are other human beings. So standing out isn't a problem.
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I had (up until a week ago) both of these. Still got the OMD EM! but I'm not fully convinced of it. Miss the decent video and just such good logic and ergonomics of the G9... although as you say, image quality wise is the same across the board!
 
Stephen L said:
When I moved back to m4/3 it was a toss-up between the E-M1 and the G9. Swings and roundabouts. Certainly Panasonic's RF-style cameras are nicer to use than Olys. But then I dislike the name "Lumix". Makes it sound "toy-ish". Irrational, I know. :D And I seldom photograph wherever there are other human beings. So standing out isn't a problem.
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I don't have a problem with Panasonic using "Lumix" as many if not most companies have various names for their different products. The addition of the "L" is rather different and IMO rather ridiculous as although I can't know I am pretty sure that Panasonic know a teeny bit more than Leica do about making compact AF cameras. I find it a bit of an embarrassment in the same way but maybe not as extreme as Leica rebranding Panasonic cameras and charging multiples of Panasonics price for them.
 
Stephen L said:
When I moved back to m4/3 it was a toss-up between the E-M1 and the G9. Swings and roundabouts. Certainly Panasonic's RF-style cameras are nicer to use than Olys. But then I dislike the name "Lumix". Makes it sound "toy-ish". Irrational, I know. :D And I seldom photograph wherever there are other human beings. So standing out isn't a problem.
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Funny that! I’ve always hoped LUMIX would catch on as Panasonic just makes me think of hi-fi etc!
 
sphexx said:
Funny that! I’ve always hoped LUMIX would catch on as Panasonic just makes me think of hi-fi etc!
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Funnily enough, when I bought my GX9 the previous owner had stuck black tape over the word "Lumix", which I thought looked quite cool. So I decided to try that with my E-M1. Looked c@@p.
 
sphexx said:
Funny that! I’ve always hoped LUMIX would catch on as Panasonic just makes me think of hi-fi etc!
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Maybe they used Lumix for just that reason, to differentiate their cameras from the hifi and microwaves etc. Personally, I'm fine with "Panasonic" and I don't think they should be ashamed to put that on their cameras especially after all this time and the respect they have (or should have) by now but obviously "Marketing" know better.
 
Must say I prefer Lumix to OM System.
Sounds like a diet plan or a built in wardrobe design.
 
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tijuana taxi said:
Must say I prefer Lumix to OM System.
Sounds like a diet plan or a built in wardrobe design.
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Lumix sounds like some concoction made in the lavatory :exit:
 
the other thing that so far no one has mentioned , is legacy compatibility .. with my olympus 1-mkiii I use a mix of lenses the current line up is a olympus 100-400 / a four thirds 18-180/ a four thirds 11-22/ a Yi 42.5 with macro/ a pergear 60mm f2.8 macro / a 50mm f1.8 OM lens . and just acquired yesterday a nikon 300mm f4 AF-S the last three lenses being manual focus all others are A/F ...there is a host of adaptors out there to fit virtually any legacy or branded lenses to a MFT body and results can often surpass modern glass ..
 
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sphexx said:
Sounds like something to with light to me :(.
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I know it's about light but always make me think of doing health and safety risk assessments as one of the things I did was measure the light levels to assess if the light was suitable for the task being performed. There's an accepted suitable light level table thingy for various tasks, you see.
 
I have recently returned to m43 (back where I started) after a few years of trying almost every manufacture/format. Including Nikon and Sony full frame and Fuji APS-C.

I found myself leaving my camera behind or not wanting to take it due to the weight, I know you can keep FF weight low ish but you have to compromise massively with the focal range that you can use. My last camera was a Z5 with 14-30 and 24-200 and I really liked it apart from the weight - well over 1.5 kg.

In October I made the decision to go to Cornwall with an OMD EM5 mkiii and the lovely 12-45 F4 pro, total weight 668 grams !! I loved it and never went anywhere without my camera. The EM 5iii is a lovely thing and I don’t really understand the criticism about the menu - it’s not worse than Sony and I tend to keep everything I need in the Super Control Panel. The shooting experience, similar to Fuji is just really lovely and I don’t worry if it rains.

I shoot in RAW with it and the images are really impressive, lots of details to be pulled out of the shadows and of course the Olympus lenses are superb - just been using the 8-25 which is amazing lens - 411g for a FF equiv of 16-50 !

Of course everyone is different and people will always feel the pull of the very best that technology can offer (or may need one of the specific benefits of another format) but sensor Size isn’t everything. I printed 2 photos 32” x 16” of the same subject and showed them to lots of people - no one could tell which had been taken with the Z5 or with the EM5 And neither could I.

I also appreciate that a Professional photographer may come across situations where a FF camera will have certain advantages that makes it worth the compromises with weight/cost etc.

With regards to budget I bought the plastic fantastic Olympus 40-150 r for £75 and it’s as sharp as I could ever need with an equiv range of 80-300 !! It’s also so little and light that I don’t mind taking it everywhere - I really believe there are lots more photographers who would find that the benefits of m/43 really out way the negatives.
 
justa1972 said:
I have recently returned to m43 (back where I started) after a few years of trying almost every manufacture/format. Including Nikon and Sony full frame and Fuji APS-C.

I found myself leaving my camera behind or not wanting to take it due to the weight, I know you can keep FF weight low ish but you have to compromise massively with the focal range that you can use. My last camera was a Z5 with 14-30 and 24-200 and I really liked it apart from the weight - well over 1.5 kg.

In October I made the decision to go to Cornwall with an OMD EM5 mkiii and the lovely 12-45 F4 pro, total weight 668 grams !! I loved it and never went anywhere without my camera. The EM 5iii is a lovely thing and I don’t really understand the criticism about the menu - it’s not worse than Sony and I tend to keep everything I need in the Super Control Panel. The shooting experience, similar to Fuji is just really lovely and I don’t worry if it rains.

I shoot in RAW with it and the images are really impressive, lots of details to be pulled out of the shadows and of course the Olympus lenses are superb - just been using the 8-25 which is amazing lens - 411g for a FF equiv of 16-50 !

Of course everyone is different and people will always feel the pull of the very best that technology can offer (or may need one of the specific benefits of another format) but sensor Size isn’t everything. I printed 2 photos 32” x 16” of the same subject and showed them to lots of people - no one could tell which had been taken with the Z5 or with the EM5 And neither could I.

I also appreciate that a Professional photographer may come across situations where a FF camera will have certain advantages that makes it worth the compromises with weight/cost etc.

With regards to budget I bought the plastic fantastic Olympus 40-150 r for £75 and it’s as sharp as I could ever need with an equiv range of 80-300 !! It’s also so little and light that I don’t mind taking it everywhere - I really believe there are lots more photographers who would find that the benefits of m/43 really out way the negatives.
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A journey almost identical to mine. Except I went for the E-M1ii body. Puts a smile on my face.
 
Stephen L said:
A journey almost identical to mine. Except I went for the E-M1ii body. Puts a smile on my face.
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Then a hole in your pocket when the grips fall off.
No longer available to buy for diy so its off to OM Systems for the standard repair fee.
Add in the complicated return journey to Portugal, I didn't bother and stuck mine back on with strong contact glue.
Not pretty, but mainly used where its likely to get banged about, not worth much secondhand now anyway.
 
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tijuana taxi said:
Then a hole in your pocket when the grips fall off.
No longer available to buy for diy so its off to OM Systems for the standard repair fee.
Add in the complicated return journey to Portugal, I didn't bother and stuck mine back on with strong contact glue.
Not pretty, but mainly used where its likely to get banged about, not worth much secondhand now anyway.
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I took the precaution of buying a new third-party set from Australia. Just in case.
 
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