Budget (ish) Portable flash

[Phil V]

Has anyone yet, or are their plans to run a group test of the current crop of portable studio flash heads? I appreciate that there's lots of similarities, but there are also some differences too. I think I'd rather buy something from a UK supplier than from a Chinese eBay supplier. There are many options in the budget arena, and few tests of any of them.

 

[HoppyUK]

Has anyone yet, or are their plans to run a group test of the current crop of portable studio flash heads? I appreciate that there's lots of similarities, but there are also some differences too. I think I'd rather buy something from a UK supplier than from a Chinese eBay supplier. There are many options in the budget arena, and few tests of any of them.

Can you be more specific Phil, such as an example of what you mean?

 

[boyfalldown]

I've been looking closely at the Lencarta atom/gotox witstro. Would be very interested if anyone has used these? On paper they look a great portable solution.

 

[Phil V]

Well I looked at the Lencarta Atom / Godox wistro and various similar items from China, and dismissed them due to wanting as much control as power (octobox / beauty dish etc).
I was thinking more the various clones of the Lencarta Safari / Bessell WP 6 and the clones, or the lLux with the battery mounted in the head (again there are clones).
The benefit being an S type mount?

 

[HoppyUK]

Can't help with many of those, not used some of the more recent products.

FWIW, for my money I'm not sure I'd look much further than Lencarta Safari, Atom, or Elinchrom Quadra - though all quite different. If you want power and control, then consider Quantum - Atom-like, but with radio E-TTL control. Kinda clunky though, bit pricey. I'd also think about ganging two or three hot-shoe guns with YN 622 triggers and a battery pack - a bit of a faff getting it all together, but good power, E-TTL, HSS etc.

 

[boyfalldown]

Well I looked at the Lencarta Atom / Godox wistro and various similar items from China, and dismissed them due to wanting as much control as power (octobox / beauty dish etc).
I was thinking more the various clones of the Lencarta Safari / Bessell WP 6 and the clones, or the lLux with the battery mounted in the head (again there are clones).
The benefit being an S type mount?

I think in that case I'd be looking very closely at the Lencarta safari li-on. I don't think you'd go wrong with that. I don't think the quality on the safari classic that good, and if you want S fit that's probably the best option without spending serious money. I like the quadras but not sure about modifiers

 

[Phil V]

Can't help with many of those, not used some of the more recent products.

FWIW, for my money I'm not sure I'd look much further than Lencarta Safari, Atom, or Elinchrom Quadra - though all quite different. If you want power and control, then consider Quantum - Atom-like, but with radio E-TTL control. Kinda clunky though, bit pricey. I'd also think about ganging two or three hot-shoe guns with YN 622 triggers and a battery pack - a bit of a faff getting it all together, but good power, E-TTL, HSS etc.

The biggest faff with multiple speedlights is the battery management, it's bad enough just for lower powered stuff, but if I was ganging speedlights for this kind of power I'd have a 3 day charging regime for every shoot.

So what's the disadvantage with the Bessel version of the Jinbei / Lencarta flash? I'm guessing from the specs it has a halogen modelling lamp (rather than LED) I'm not sure the modelling lamp will be much use anyway outside?.

The ILux has a lot of talk of high speeds? But I can't find any 3rd party info to indicate whether that's marketing BS or usable power.

 

[treeman]

Phil, You're just going to have to put your credit card in the vice, squeeze a bit more cash out of it, and buy this.
A completely wireless studio light with a built in battery with full TTL when you want it, what more could you want

 

[Garry Edwards]

I think that the last major group test was in Advanced Photographer at the beginning of last year, and not a lot has happened since then, in real terms.

The Atom has arrived of course, and personally I think it's streets better than the Quantum that it's based on, but it's basically the same type of thing. No TTL currently, but I don't view that as important once the flash has been moved off camera.

Will Cheung, editor of Advanced Photographer, has the Atom 360 and I've been told that there will be a review of it in the issue that's about to come out, although of course I have no idea what he will say about it, it should be worth reading.

I don't comment on products sold by other Companies, but I will say this... I have personally looked at each of the "new" products sold under various names. I've done more than look at them, I've visited the factories where each is made in China, talked to the engineers and carried out thorough performance and colour temperature tests. We look at the factory's technical resources, human resources and attitude towards both quality control and technical support, as well as at the actual products. At one time we spent a whole 4 days at the factory that makes the portable flash that was sold under the name of "Strobeam" here. It's this kind of detailed research that informs our decisions.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks Garry.
The atom ticks all my boxes except I'd like to use a large softbox, and possibly my beauty dish too, so I'm looking for S fit. I'm not generally impressed with any of the test images I've seen from the atom, I'm sure more could be done, but I can't see the point in spending a lot of money and ending up with as much inconvenience as I have now.

I've had a little play with the Safari LiIon, which is what's set me off, I'll probably not make a decision till I've seen others in the flesh (hopefully at the Photography show).

 

[markmullen]

I've got Quadra Ranger which I'm very happy with, only up the road in York if you want a go with them?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Thanks Garry.
The atom ticks all my boxes except I'd like to use a large softbox, and possibly my beauty dish too, so I'm looking for S fit. I'm not generally impressed with any of the test images I've seen from the atom, I'm sure more could be done, but I can't see the point in spending a lot of money and ending up with as much inconvenience as I have now.

I've had a little play with the Safari LiIon, which is what's set me off, I'll probably not make a decision till I've seen others in the flesh (hopefully at the Photography show).

Well, all that you need to use it with large softboxes etc is an S-fit adapter for around 20 quid... Unlike normal hotshoe flashguns, the Atom can be used barebulb, so will fill a large softbox easily and evenly

 

[Mank]

I have the Safari Li-on as you know Phil, my friend has the Jinbei copy. If I was to spend the money again I'd buy the Jinbei if I'm being completely honest.

 

[Phil V]

Well, all that you need to use it with large softboxes etc is an S-fit adapter for around 20 quid... Unlike normal hotshoe flashguns, the Atom can be used barebulb, so will fill a large softbox easily and evenly

I should have had a go whilst I had it in my hand (oooh matron!!).
Thanks Garry - food for thought, but I can't see the adaptor on the site?

 

[Phil V]

I have the Safari Li-on as you know Phil, my friend has the Jinbei copy. If I was to spend the money again I'd buy the Jinbei if I'm being completely honest.

Cheers Rob: it was our chat that led me to not go directly with my gut instinct.

 

[Phil V]

I've got Quadra Ranger which I'm very happy with, only up the road in York if you want a go with them?

Thanks Mark, I can't think when I'd have time in the near future to come over, but it's something I'll bear in mind.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I should have had a go whilst I had it in my hand (oooh matron!!).
Thanks Garry - food for thought, but I can't see the adaptor on the site?

Here

 

[Phil V]

I found it after I posted ops:- I was expecting a custom kinda thing though - I already have one but that looks better balanced. I always thought that they were designed by people who had no idea how much a beauty dish weighs compared to a flashgun. That's much better for a medium softbox. But a larger octobox or BD would still need tying down or holding.

I'm presuming you're going to (not) focus Garry? I'll be bugging you for a play.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks Garry.
The atom ticks all my boxes except I'd like to use a large softbox, and possibly my beauty dish too, so I'm looking for S fit. I'm not generally impressed with any of the test images I've seen from the atom, I'm sure more could be done, but I can't see the point in spending a lot of money and ending up with as much inconvenience as I have now.

I've had a little play with the Safari LiIon, which is what's set me off, I'll probably not make a decision till I've seen others in the flesh (hopefully at the Photography show).

Prolly the best plan

Only you know what will suit personal needs, eg properly shoulder-portable as opposed to merely mains-free like the Profoto B1, modifier options, TTL etc. Just a thought, AFAIK the only way to get proper HSS is with speedlites.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Yes, Lencarta will be at The Photography Show in March, with plenty of new products for you to play with. We always like it when people look at everything that's available, it helps our sales no end

 

[foto-paul]

Well I have just pulled the trigger on a safari kit this afternoon after lots of indisision about what to go for, in the end I chose the safari over the others as they have a three year warranty and from what I gather on here the customer service is pretty good.
I was going to go for a ranger pack as Ive used them a fair bit but all my modifiers are bowens fit and also the cost was a fair bit more.
Anyway I will update when I've had a play

 

[srichards]

I was wondering about the atom too but it doesn't have ttl. Not sure whether that would be an issue in practice.

Metz do a flashgun with a guide number of 58. Its £250.

 

[Phil V]

I was wondering about the atom too but it doesn't have ttl. Not sure whether that would be an issue in practice.

Metz do a flashgun with a guide number of 58. Its £250.

My rule of thumb for flash guns is: for moving and changing subjects, ETTL

For static set ups, Manual all the way.

If you imagine a small studio set up, and a series of couples in different outfits, it'll throw the metering all over the place. It'd do the same to the flash output. So given that the flash to subject distance will be static, manual is more than OK, it's preferable.

I'll not steal Garry's thunder by telling you how GNs are not reliable as a benchmark, and how much more powerful the Atom is. (Oft quoted as equivalent to 6 high output speed lights)

 

[Garry Edwards]

You can't really compare the £350 Atom 180 kit, with a guide No. of 60 with a completely different type of flashgun that happens to have a guide No. of 58 - they are very different beasts, with different performance, different strengths and different weaknesses. It isn't just about power, it's about whether or not the particular features, for example the ability to use the Atom as a barebulb flash, and the 900 full power flashes from a single battery charge, are important to you, for the type of use that you give it.
And of course, the same considerations apply to the Atom 180's big brother, the 360.

Different people have different views on the importance of ttl. On camera, it has its uses, but these units are primarily designed for off camera use, and personally I have never wanted ttl off camera. In fact I find that particular feature about as useful as some of the gadgets on my iphone, and in the same class as the clever electric auto adjusting seats in my car

But even it it was about power, then you need to compare apples with other apples, not with oranges. The Metz flashgun is pretty powerful as hotshoe flashes go, but that guide number calculation is achieved with a mirror-like reflector set at 180mm. The Atom guide number is achieved with a gentle, diffused reflector with an equivalent of 35mm - that's a massive real-world difference.
Edit: Phil types faster than me...

 

[HoppyUK]

There's no doubt that the Atoms are powerful compared to speedlites, and I am no fan of guide numbers for comparing power at all, but manufacturers of alternatives to speedlites have a habit of understating the strength of the opposition. For example, the Profoto B1 linked earlier claims to have ten times the power of 'the average speedlite' (whatever that is) which would be circa 50Ws equivalent. That is quite a modest speedlite.

The best hot-shoe guns that I've tested, side by side with studio heads in a modifier that collects total light output and scrambles it all and thus levels the playing field as much as possible, puts a Nissin 622 at around 110Ws equivalent, Canon 580EX at 120Ws, and Nikon SB900 at close to 150Ws. Maybe they're a bit high, maybe a bit low, but if there is a significant error (let's say more than 10%) it's down to exactly what a Ws means in terms of actual light, but there is no definition of that. (A Watt-second [or joule, same thing] is a measure of energy stored in the capacitors, technically not directly related to light output, but as a general measure it's the best we've got.) However, my Ws estimates are an average of about three dozen studio heads I've reviewed (Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta, Profoto, Bron, Interfit, Lastolite etc etc) so I think that's not a bad basis.

Make of that what you will, but if you want a handy yardstick for what a top end speedlite is in terms of Ws, the big guns from Canon, Nikon, Nissin and Metz etc are all putting out at least 100Ws equivalent.

 

[EspressoJunkie]

A friend of mind uses Quantuum ( not to be confused with Quantum ) flashes, which are full size heads, each with s small battery pack. They're a Polish brand, but I'm pretty sure they're available shipped to the UK. IIRC he said the 600W and battery pack was about £300. I'm not sure about quality, but he seems pretty happy with them.

 

[srichards]

I did notice the bowens geminis (200/200) are now compatible with the battery pack that bowens do. If there is an after market alternative to their slightly steep £500 for the travel pack then it could be a possibility. Their twin head kits are about £400. Think they're S fit too.

I'm after something portable and reliable and cheap (ish) too. I'm stuck between getting a cheapo twin head normal studio flash (like interfit 200exd @ £270 odd) and just lugging it about or going for one atom or similar. But with the price of the atom it's venturing into Safari territory if you want to expand as the heads seem to be much more than safari heads. Then all the modifiers on top are quite pricey. I'd mostly be doing still life or museum catalogues/sale room catalogue images so I think flexibility is more useful to me than out and out power. I'm also tempted by the bowens geminis as adding a battery pack later is another possibility but as a £500 possibility it is rather less appealing.

The bowens/atom/safari seem like the better long term propositions but I don't want to spend a fortune on the off chance I find I don't actually do many things that genuinely need to use them.

 

[Garry Edwards]

The Atom heads cost more because they are basically a pretty high tech flash head, containing all the works. By contrast, the Safari heads are simple, containing little more than a flash tube and a modelling lamp. Conventional flash heads are somewhere between the two, in terms of complexity.

If it helps with your choice, the Atom can be used for still life and similar, all you would need to do would be to get a S-fit adapter, it will then work perfectly well with any modifier - but it's frankly overkill unless you need the power, fast recycling, remote control and short flash durations.

The Safari Li-on would probably be more suitable, but of course costs more.

Literally any studio flash heads can be be used with any of the battery inverters, there's no real advantage that I can see in going for a specific make, but the battery inverters have limited battery life, the batteries die very quickly especially if used with the modelling lamps, and they are very heavy and bulky to carry around - basically they're just a poor man's Safari. Studio heads really come into their own where there is mains power available, it's what they do best. Buying studio flashes and making them portable (transportable may be a better word) is a bit like wanting both a sports car and a transit van, so buying an estate car instead...

 

[srichards]

I think the atom, even though a bit on overkill side, I would probably get a lot more use out of. Plus with being more portable I could use it for all manner of mad things which with mains flash I couldn't. Also in the environment I'm currently working in having something that does lots of flashes without trailing wires is a big advantage

 

[HoppyUK]

I think the atom, even though a bit on overkill side, I would probably get a lot more use out of. Plus with being more portable I could use it for all manner of mad things which with mains flash I couldn't. Also in the environment I'm currently working in having something that does lots of flashes without trailing wires is a big advantage

The Bowens battery packs work okay, but not great. For the money, I'd rather get an Innovatronix pack that works with any studio head.

Do you have mains access, within reach of an extension lead? If so, a light-weight studio head or two is probably best and cheapest. The only trailing wire is the mains cable, and frankly the most likely people hazards are light stands and tripods.

Elinchroms tend to be lightest, and their D-Lites are very light. D-Lite One is tiny and only weighs 0.9kg (most others weigh two or three times that) and 100Ws is probably all you'd need. High spec heads with radio remote control and triggering built in. Couple of light-weight stands, and fast-folding softboxes like Lencarta Profold or Bessel.

 

[srichards]

There are electric sockets but not always conveniently placed and having wires trailing about is asking for trouble as I am really good at tripping over things!

D lites sound worth a look though. Thanks.

 

[markmullen]

The Flash Centre has been selling off ex hire quadras through their facebook page recently, roughly a grand a set.

 

[boyfalldown]

The Bowens battery packs work okay, but not great. For the money, I'd rather get an Innovatronix pack that works with any studio head.

I'm a big travelpak user as you know, but I wouldn't describe the system as portable. Its more a mains replacement

 

[Tizer]

I've got the Jinbei Commander 600 with a Jinbei 950 Octabox and a 60x60 softbox to go with it. Both softboxes are really solid, bit of a fiddle with the octabox to put together but not too bad. Jinbei is very light compared to the Quadra. Does the job nicely.

I got mine 2nd hand, in spotless condition.

http://www.photospecialist.co.uk/jinbei-dc-600-flash-set

Very good customer service and delivery times.

 

[srichards]

This might be a slightly dim question... but does the atom have any kind of modelling light? I'm just wondering how someone that is new to flash would go about working out the probable results reasonably well and how to correct for obvious mistakes. I'm assuming the safari has modelling lights?

 

[Phil V]

This might be a slightly dim question... but does the atom have any kind of modelling light? I'm just wondering how someone that is new to flash would go about working out the probable results reasonably well and how to correct for obvious mistakes. I'm assuming the safari has modelling lights?

The Safari's et al have modelling lights (though not very powerful ones to conserve battery power), the Atom's and their like don't.

However, for my intended use; outside in bright sunlight, using for first dance etc the modelling laps would be useless. Which is why I'm probably going for the Atom.

 

[HoppyUK]

This might be a slightly dim question... but does the atom have any kind of modelling light? I'm just wondering how someone that is new to flash would go about working out the probable results reasonably well and how to correct for obvious mistakes. I'm assuming the safari has modelling lights?

As Phil says, outdoors in daylight a modelling light is useless. The battery flashes with them often don't have the ability to turn up/down, eg in-pro with the flash power, and they're mostly on a timer so you don't drain the battery accidentally.

If you're new to studio lighting, a modelling light is very useful indeed, and even when you're experienced they're a great help for critical positioning if say you're trying to avoid reflections or create certain shadows. The alternative is to chimp of course, though it's nothing like as quick or easy.

 

[srichards]

I think I'll be doing a lot of chimping in that case... flash, chimp, arse, flash, chimp, arse, flash, chimp, oooh, flash, flash, flash, chimp, arse...

 

[HoppyUK]

I think I'll be doing a lot of chimping in that case... flash, chimp, arse, flash, chimp, arse, flash, chimp, oooh, flash, flash, flash, chimp, arse...

LOL quite The more you look into it, the more it makes sense to have different kit for outdoors and studio There is no all-in-one solution.

I think that if you want to explore lighting seriously, you need modelling lights, as it's just such a faff without that you won't bother and always play safe. It's one of the reason I always recommend studio heads for beginners instead of speedlites (the other main reason being fast recycle). TBH, I suspect that a lot of those with home portrait studios using speedlites simply put up a softbox or shoot-through umbrella, position it a bit to one side, and never change it. Basic, easy, foolproof, and also looks very good mostly, but they'll never develop creatively.

For still life and product work, I would simply hate to be without a modelling light. With that kind of subject, just moving the light a few inches, or tilting a reflector a few degrees, is what makes the shot.

 

[Finste]

LOL quite The more you look into it, the more it makes sense to have different kit for outdoors and studio There is no all-in-one solution.

I think that if you want to explore lighting seriously, you need modelling lights, as it's just such a faff without that you won't bother and always play safe. It's one of the reason I always recommend studio heads for beginners instead of speedlites (the other main reason being fast recycle). TBH, I suspect that a lot of those with home portrait studios using speedlites simply put up a softbox or shoot-through umbrella, position it a bit to one side, and never change it. Basic, easy, foolproof, and also looks very good mostly, but they'll never develop creatively.

For still life and product work, I would simply hate to be without a modelling light. With that kind of subject, just moving the light a few inches, or tilting a reflector a few degrees, is what makes the shot.

I'd also cite the convenience factor as well. Unless you can use your battery pack via the mains you have to ensure that the batteries are charged when you want to use them. (Quadras can be used like this but the lithium battery gets very hot). Not a biggie I know but mains power is just so convenient.

As far as having two systems is concerned, that may well be a fact of life until we see a massive jump in battery technology, which to be honest is the same for almost all electronics these days.

Regards...