Breast feeding (please don't enter if you cannot act like a grown up)

[MWHCVT]

Now I'm aware firstly this is a hot topic that really can raise blood pressures, especially as I'm a guy, but please as the title says please lets try and keep this thread from being locked...

Is anyone else getting tired of what I can only discribe a "militant breast feeding" where anger is directed at any venue, company or orgaisation that requests people not to publicly breast feed in their location...that almost instantly prompts outrage from what couple possibly be described as "the mumsnet brigade" now lets get it totally clear its utterly wrong what happened to a woman who had a abusive picture posted about here on Facebook for breast feeding...

Now it has to be said I'm all for mothers choice to breast feed, there is nothing at all wrong with that its a choice, and it's perfectly natural, however it's the right of others not to see it happening so if someone representing a organisation of some sort asks you not to, it is IMO outrageous to subject them to trial by social media for that IMO... yes it's a natural process but so is urination and as a society we do not allow that in fact you'll get your collar felt for it...there is as far as I know nothing preventing mothers from expressing some milk for times when the cannot breast feed directly...

So after all that said, am I the only one tired of the militant breast feeding campaign that seems to be more common by the week almost

 

[simon ess]

I wasn't aware there was a "militant breast feeding campaign."

If there is, I would tend to support it.

Equating breast feeding with urinating seems a bit odd to me.

What is it with men and women's breasts anyway? (There's more to that question than meets the eye BTW)

 

[Cg_Girl]

Urinating and breast feeding are totally different, you can't put them even close in category likeness...

Secondly this topic always ends in disaster. I see no good reason to open it up again


Sent from The Moon.....

 

[CanonDjango]

Is anyone else getting tired of what I can only discribe a "militant breast feeding"

no

where anger is directed at any venue, company or orgaisation that requests people not to publicly breast feed in their location

no

however it's the right of others not to see it happening

no its not.

Why should anyone be allowed to dictate that a child cannot be fed. If they allow bottle feeding then they have no right to deny breastfeeding.

 

[MWHCVT]

I wasn't aware there was a "militant breast feeding campaign."

If there is, I would tend to support it.

Equating breast feeding with urinating seems a bit odd to me.

What is it with men and women's breasts anyway? (There's more to that question than meets the eye BTW)

I refer to the stories that seem to arise on a weekly basis where a mother is asked not to breast feed in XYZ shop or ABC cafe that is followed in a few days by a group of mothers converging on said location with the express intention of breast feeding in protest

I was not attempting to suggest urination and breast feeding were exactly comparable but as males do not lactate it's pretty hard to provide a directly comparable situation

 

[Raptor Mike]

I don't see the problem with it. My wife always used to cover up as much as possible. You see a lot less than some bikini tops.

I don't enjoy seeing dogs do their stuff on the pavement, but no one seems to mind if its picked up. And seeing a dog do that is discussing, breast feeding isn't.

Perhaps you would rather listen to the baby crying because its hungry. Its no wonder more mothers are using formula with attitudes like that.

Its natural, you don't see anything, don't worry about it.

 

[Tigger.ufo]

I would far rather that someone breastfeed their screaming child than have to listen to it.

Just look the other way if it bothers you.

....and don't start about going into the ladies to do it either!

 

[CanonDjango]

I was not attempting to suggest urination and breast feeding were exactly comparable but as males do not lactate it's pretty hard to provide a directly comparable situation

A better comparison would be with bottle feeding. Since both involve putting milk into an infant. Theres no difference between them except the vessel that provides the milk

 

[MWHCVT]

no



no



no its not.

Why should anyone be allowed to dictate that a child cannot be fed. If they allow bottle feeding then they have no right to deny breastfeeding.

You've been very selective in how you've quoted me there on the last point you've completely neglected my point about being able to express some milk in advance in order to be able to bottle feed while out, I know this is possible as a cousin of mine would do exactly that for times when say her little girl would spend a few hours around granny's etc

 

[Tigger.ufo]

Who, exactly, complains about breastfeeding in public anyway?

 

[CanonDjango]

You've been very selective in how you've quoted me there on the last point you've completely neglected my point about being able to express some milk in advance in order to be able to bottle feed while out, I know this is possible as a cousin of mine would do exactly that for times when say her little girl would spend a few hours around granny's etc

Expressing milk is for when the mother cant be with the child. Why would a mother express into a bottle when they can give them milk directly from the breast?

 

[Tigger.ufo]

You've been very selective in how you've quoted me there on the last point you've completely neglected my point about being able to express some milk in advance in order to be able to bottle feed while out, I know this is possible as a cousin of mine would do exactly that for times when say her little girl would spend a few hours around granny's etc

...and why the hell should they?

Totally different situation there as the mother is not present.

 

[simon ess]

IMO, a woman should be able to breastfeed anywhere she chooses.

If an organisation such as a café or shop chooses to prevent her, then I fully support protest against their policy.

The real protest should, ultimately, be against a societal construction that regards breastfeeding as somehow undesirable in certain contexts.

There, that's my opinion, and it's unlikely to change.

 

[big soft moose]

Is anyone else getting tired of what I can only discribe a "militant breast feeding" where anger is directed at any venue, company or orgaisation that requests people not to publicly breast feed in their location...that almost instantly prompts outrage from what couple possibly be described as "the mumsnet brigade"

I know what you mean matt - personally I'm not bothered by breast feeding in public , but the level of anger directed at anyone who might make that request is frequently out of proportion to the request - private premises have a perfect legal right to dictate how the people they allow to enter behave, and can ban any behaviour they wish.

ergo if a restaraunt for example decides they would prefer not to have babies breast fed at the table that's their prerogative, if you don't like it as a breast feeding parent then you have the freedom of choice to take your custom elsewhere

 

[MWHCVT]

I would far rather that someone breastfeed their screaming child than have to listen to it.

Just look the other way if it bothers you.

....and don't start about going into the ladies to do it either!

Heather on the screening child front I entirely agree with you...I wouldn't expect the mother to go into a toilet even the cleanest of toilets is still unsanitary for such an act

A better comparison would be with bottle feeding. Since both involve putting milk into an infant. Theres no difference between them except the vessel that provides the milk

No as that is no comparison at all....bottle feeding is not a bodily function last time I checked a biology text there was not mention of the female or male body for that matter being able to excrete bottles of anything

 

[Yves Geza]

I find myself in total agreement with Moose and may have to go and lie down in a dark room because of it or drink some milk or something!!

 

[CanonDjango]

No as that is no comparison at all....bottle feeding is not a bodily function last time I checked a biology text there was not mention of the female or male body for that matter being able to excrete bottles of anything

what exactly is your issue with using a breast to put the milk into the baby? why is it any different to using a bottle?

seems very childish to me

 

[Tigger.ufo]

I know what you mean matt - personally I'm not bothered by breast feeding in public , but the level of anger directed at anyone who might make that request is frequently out of proportion to the request - private premises have a perfect legal right to dictate how the people they allow to enter behave, and can ban any behaviour they wish.

ergo if a restaraunt for example decides they would prefer not to have babies breast fed at the table that's their prerogative, if you don't like it as a breast feeding parent then you have the freedom of choice to take your custom elsewhere

....but I think they should make it very obvious BEFORE taking bookings, food orders etc so people CAN have the freedom of choice.

I suspect that will not happen as it could affect their business though!


.

 

[Yv]

You've been very selective in how you've quoted me there on the last point you've completely neglected my point about being able to express some milk in advance in order to be able to bottle feed while out, I know this is possible as a cousin of mine would do exactly that for times when say her little girl would spend a few hours around granny's etc

Just so you understand it fully Matt, there are reasons why expressing milk is generally only used for times when mum cannot be with the child [or needs some much needed sleep], that revolves around stimulating over production of milk if its done too often at the wrong times [ie, when baby isn't actually hungry] and is also for many women a very uncomfortable procedure [go stick a dirt devil vac on your nipples for 20 minutes, see how you like it - sorry to be so blunt, but sort of covers it] So, whilst expressing IS an option, do bear in mind that it has issues.

 

[ghoti]

Anyone offended by breastfeeding is a simpleton.

Not directed at the OP. I realise they have said they have no problem with it.

 

[CanonDjango]

I have to say I find the title of these thread very ironic.

Asking people to only enter if they can act like a grown up. Yet it would actually appear like the OP cannot do what he is asking others to do by raising a non issue in the first place. I mean really is there anything less grown up than not being able to accept breastfeeding?

 

[Cobra]

[go stick a dirt devil vac on your nipples for 20 minutes, see how you like it -

I'm just glad you said nipple TBH.

 

[Tigger.ufo]

I'm just glad you said nipple TBH.

Trust you to be the least grown up person here!


.

 

[MWHCVT]

Sorry for not responding to everyone but lets just make this totally and utterly clear I (Matthew) have NO problem with breast feeding at all, read what I said again please it's not the act, it's the indignant protests I have a problem with

Just so you understand it fully Matt, there are reasons why expressing milk is generally only used for times when mum cannot be with the child [or needs some much needed sleep], that revolves around stimulating over production of milk if its done too often at the wrong times [ie, when baby isn't actually hungry] and is also for many women a very uncomfortable procedure [go stick a dirt devil vac on your nipples for 20 minutes, see how you like it - sorry to be so blunt, but sort of covers it] So, whilst expressing IS an option, do bear in mind that it has issues.

Fully understood thanks to yourself as a single guy with no children I admit to not knowing all the negatives of this action, though I think Henry will be upset if I take you last suggestion

 

[big soft moose]

....but I think they should make it very obvious BEFORE taking bookings, food orders etc so people CAN have the freedom of choice.

I suspect that will not happen as it could affect their business though!


.

I agree - but that is essentially what matt is talking about - if a restaraunt was to do that they'd be immediately mobbed by protesters because of the total overkill which attends this debate. I certainly don't support the idea that breast feeding should only be done in in private , or that a woman should have to use the toilets (as matt said making an infant be fed in the loos is unsanitary), but I do think that private premises have the right to make whatever rules they see fit (within the law) on the behaviour of their customers.

The other point is that I know infants have to be fed on a regular basis , but it is rarely so urgent that they have to be fed immediately if the mother is in an inappropriate location, so if she happens to be in a shop that doesn't permit breast feeding then there should not be a problem with going somewhere else to feed

 

[MWHCVT]

Anyone offended by breastfeeding is a simpleton.

Not directed at the OP. I realise they have said they have no problem with it.

Thank you and I agree fully

 

[CanonDjango]

Sorry for not responding to everyone but lets just make this totally and utterly clear I (Matthew) have NO problem with breast feeding at all, read what I said again please it's not the act, it's the indignant protests I have a problem with

but what you are saying is just as bad. Clearly you do have an issue with it. Otherwise you would understand why people feel the need to protest the ability to do the breastfeeding if it is restricted. If you think there is nothing wrong with it then why do you think it is ok for people to not allow it?

How about if the same restaurant excluded anyone who was black? or obese? or Chinese? would you understand it then?

 

[Cobra]

I think its just human nature TBH Matt.
Its the same with a lot of things, tell someone they can't do it, and they will do it all the more.
With a little help from their friends if necessary.

Disclaimer
I too have no problem with breast feeding in public.

 

[big soft moose]

I mean really is there anything less grown up than not being able to accept breastfeeding?

may be not reading a post properly before getting hot under the collar about it

As Matt has said the issue at hand isn't breast feeding per se - its the level of indignant protest by people not directly involved in the issue determined to be offended on the behalf of a third party , that he is expressing an issue with.

 

[Keith W]

Crunchy Nut Cornflakes

 

[big soft moose]

I mean really is there anything less grown up than not being able to accept breastfeeding?

may be not reading a post properly before getting hot under the collar about it

As Matt has said the issue at hand isn't breast feeding per se - its the level of indignant protest by people not directly involved in the issue determined to be offended on the behalf of a third party , that he is expressing an issue with.

 

[CanonDjango]

may be not reading a post properly before getting hot under the collar about it

As Matt has said the issue at hand isn't breast feeding per se - its the level of indignant protest by people not directly involved in the issue determined to be offended on the behalf of a third party , that he is expressing an issue with.

and I can't see why if you think people have the right to breastfeed you dont think they should make a big deal out of not protesting when they can't.

It would be like saying "I disagree with racism - but I don't think anyone should kick up a fuss about it."

 

[big soft moose]

and I can't see why if you think people have the right to breastfeed you dont think they should make a big deal out of not protesting when they can't.

It would be like saying "I disagree with racism - but I don't think anyone should kick up a fuss about it."

As I was saying about not reading posts properly

I don't believe people have the right to breast feed where ever the wish - I do believe that they have the right to do so in public , and that it shouldn't be banned in places where they may have little choice but to be (like on public transport , or in job centres etc) ,

However I don't believe this extends to private premises like cafe's , pub's shops etc - these places have the right to make whatever rules they wish about the acceptable behaviours of their customers - no ice creams in the shop, ties must be worn, no crash helmets inside, no more than four school children in the shop at one time, no photography on the premises... etc - and I believe that they should be able to make these rules without being subject of hysterical mass protest from people who were never going to be their customers in the first place.

Any potential customer who doesn't like the rules has the freedom to go elsewhere, and the premises owner has the freedom to decide what clientele he or she wants to attract and to weigh the potential loss of custom from prohibiting certain behaviours against the potential loss of custom from not doing

 

[MWHCVT]

but what you are saying is just as bad. Clearly you do have an issue with it. Otherwise you would understand why people feel the need to protest the ability to do the breastfeeding if it is restricted. If you think there is nothing wrong with it then why do you think it is ok for people to not allow it?

How about if the same restaurant excluded anyone who was black? or obese? or Chinese? would you understand it then?

Oh please don't make irrational comparisons, a preclusion to breast feeding (when there are, all be it potentially limited options) is hardly comparible with racisim

 

[big soft moose]

Oh please don't make irrational comparisons, a preclusion to breast feeding (when there are, all be it potentially limited options) is hardly comparible with racisim

indeed - a premises owner can make any rule they like within the law - so no dogs, no bikers is an acceptable position , but no blacks, no irish isn't

the racism metaphor might be more comparable with forbidding babies from the premises entirely - but saying no breast feeding really isn't the same thing , as its about an optional behaviour not an inherent characteristic.

 

[simonblue]

I think its just human nature TBH Matt.
Its the same with a lot of things, tell someone they can't do it, and they will do it all the more.
With a little help from their friends if necessary.

Disclaimer
I too have no problem with breast feeding in public.

But you got to stop,your to old to be breast fed now

 

[Tigger.ufo]

Just a phone pic from Iceland which I thought was appropriate.....

20140331_102811 by Tigertail.ufo, on Flickr

 

[MWHCVT]

Just a phone pic from Iceland which I thought was appropriate.....

20140331_102811 by Tigertail.ufo, on Flickr

Indeed and in the same way that venues that do that should be applauded those that take a polar standpoint to that should not be lambasted for their stance on the subject

 

[bindex]

I haven't noticed any militant breast feeding campaign at all, however as a 60 odd year old bloke maybe I wouldn't. We have two children, my wife tried breast feeding but for whatever reason it didn't work out. Breast feeding has been around since the dawn of mankind, It's not offensive or sexual, just a natural function. As far as I'm concerned it's part of life, no big deal...

 

[jakeblu]

Now I'm aware firstly this is a hot topic that really can raise blood pressures, especially as I'm a guy, but please as the title says please lets try and keep this thread from being locked...

Is anyone else getting tired of what I can only discribe a "militant breast feeding" where anger is directed at any venue, company or orgaisation that requests people not to publicly breast feed in their location...that almost instantly prompts outrage from what couple possibly be described as "the mumsnet brigade" now lets get it totally clear its utterly wrong what happened to a woman who had a abusive picture posted about here on Facebook for breast feeding...

Now it has to be said I'm all for mothers choice to breast feed, there is nothing at all wrong with that its a choice, and it's perfectly natural, however it's the right of others not to see it happening so if someone representing a organisation of some sort asks you not to, it is IMO outrageous to subject them to trial by social media for that IMO... yes it's a natural process but so is urination and as a society we do not allow that in fact you'll get your collar felt for it...there is as far as I know nothing preventing mothers from expressing some milk for times when the cannot breast feed directly...

So after all that said, am I the only one tired of the militant breast feeding campaign that seems to be more common by the week almost

You start a thread asking for adult responses and then present a childish argument.

My wife breast fed all our 4 children, what can I say it saved me a fortune and meant I didn't have to get up during the night.

I have no problem with breast feeding in public, my wife used to do it discreetly. She wasn't over keen getting her boobs out in front of strangers but needs be then needs must. I also have no problems with militant protest it brings the subject to the attention of the public and that is most likely to effect a change, and personally I would be minded to boycott any establishment that had such a ban and would welcome the militancy that brought it to my attention.

Steve