Best option for shallow DOF (Equestrian photography)

tricialclark

tricialclark

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Tricia
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Hi all,

I'm a complete novice but can't wait to start my first eventing season with a DSLR.

Now I think know the basics for shallow DOF - large aperture, background far away, subject close etc. But my question regards this: I have a Canon EF 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS and a Sigma 135-400mm f/4-5.6. Therefore there's an overlap of the 135-250mm range. So, which is best to use for acheiving shallow DOF: the lower end of the Sigma zoom at f/4 or the higher end of the Canon zoom but at f/5.6. Is there 'theoretically' one option of these which is better than the other or is it simply a matter of try both and see which works better? I also acquired a Hanimar 135mm f/2.8.. but because that seems limited on options to me I tend to leave that out of the bag - is that a mistake?

As a generalisation I'd mainly like to master this for cross-country photography where the background is often quite close to the subject... Dressage and Show-jumping I find slightly easier as the background is usually further away. So for the sake of my question, I'd be looking at quick shutter speed and outdoor shooting.

I've been on other photography forums and when posing a question like this have received answers such as "to acheive the best shallow DOF pull a couple of grand out of your back pocket and buy a Canon f/2.8 L lens" or "your lenses aren't suitable" etc. In an ideal world I would love to use an L lens, but I'm a musician and as such it took me a couple of years to save for the camera alone ;) But I'm sure yous folks here aren't like that at all so I really look forward to your advice on this!

Many thanks :)
 
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Horses and shallow DoF don't usually go together due to the size of the horse. You might stand a chance if you are shooting side on though.

I would suggest you have a read of this as it will help you work out the sums and give you a bisic idea of what you are trying to achieve.
 
Hi try the IS lens crank it down to f/4 and be a good distance away say 7/10 feet, zoom in on the object or if a person focus on the eye and shoot, zooms can give good Bokeh but i thinks it's practice thats makes perfect, shutter speed depending on light,


merc
 
Just done a small calc for you as an example.

If you are on your cross country course and shooting a big horsey coming towards you at 200mm F4 from 30 feet away you will have a DoF of 1.23 ft. This means it's lugs will be in focus and it's, and the riders, nose will be OoF. :lol:
 
The simple answer, as Jim's already said, is that you can't.

If you go on to Google Images and search for either 'Badminton Horse Trials' or 'Burleigh Horse Trials' you will find very few images the have pronounced DoF, and those that do are using f4 or f5.6+ where the DoF is caused by the relationship of the subject to the background.

This photograph from Aachen is a classic example:

http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/countd...9/11/04/meet-the-weg-discipline-eventing.aspx

Concentrate on the basics of stopping the motion and getting the horse in focus at the correct point of jump before worrying about knocking the background out; that can come later.
 
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Many thanks for the replies and the links - that calculator looks very handy! I should have said I was talking about shooting side on, apologies. And apologies again if this is a stupid question, but what difference does shutter speed make to DOF? Or is it just a matter of faster shutter speed (in decent light) allows you to shoot at wider aperture which gives shallower DOF?

I've spent hours already studying the photos on flickr, some of them are truly amazing. And it's really interesting (at least for someone as clueless as me!) reading the EXIF on some of them. We're heading over to Badminton as usual this year, so I'm definitely taking the camera. I only had a FujiFilm FinePix S1500 for any events last year... which I thought in fairness did a pretty good job for what it is - it at least gave me a good opportunity to practice getting the correct point of stride/take-off/jump. :)
 
DemiLion said:
The simple answer, as Jim's already said, is that you can't.

If you go on to Google Images and search for either 'Badminton Horse Trials' or 'Burleigh Horse Trials' you will find very few images the have pronounced DoF, and those that do are using f4 or f5.6+ where the DoF is caused by the relationship of the subject to the background.

This photograph from Aachen is a classic example:

http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/countd...9/11/04/meet-the-weg-discipline-eventing.aspx

Concentrate on the basics of stopping the motion and getting the horse in focus at the correct point of jump before worrying about knocking the background out; that can come later.
Click to expand...

Sound advice

plus you could always pp in a blurred background later :)
 
Even taken at f2.8 with a fair bit of distance behind the rider this shot doesn't have the blur that can make the horse 'stand out'.


blaircci2075web.jpg


Do a search on here for Dod, he's not bad at it.
 
Most of these were at f/4 if my memory serves me correctly. All were using the 70-200mm and as others have said a lot of it is down to the distances involved. If you get your angles right you should have enough separation from the subject and the background - much more so than when doing showjumping or dressage.

Badminton

Badminton - water

Badminton 2008

Yet more from Badminton!

Zara Philips

Blenheim

Hope this helps. :thumbs:
 
Ha, I was just looking for some of yours Colin, you've saved me the bother. :)
 
Get a 200 f2 :)
 
Gorgeous shots Mr Colin/Hacker sir, really amazing. If I can get one of that quality in the next ten years I'll be ecstatic ;)

Do yous who shoot horses find your own taste confirmation-wise has an effect on how you choose your angles? Obviously for those of you with clients (whom I bow down to!) their needs come first, but if you're going out shooting just for the hell of it, what do you prefer?

Whilst I jumped competitively when I was a kid/teen, I've concentrated on dressage mostly and I find I usually prefer the look of side-on (or nearly side-on shots where you can really see confirmation and outline... and on cross-country I think this hides flappy elbows quite well ;) Himself events and prefers the more front on shots where he can see expression (horse and rider) and the tuck of the forelegs. He actually quite likes the flappy elbows... calls it 'helping'.
 
If I'm shooting for the owner or trainer it's invariably side on, unless they are looking to show a particular ability, because that demonstrates the horse's and rider's skills the best.

If I'm playing I'll generally take into account the obstacle, the backdrop, the light, the level of class and the access available, and then decide which angle to choose from based on a combination of those factors. You are almost always going to choose a different framing when comparing a drop and a standard fence for example. Drops are one of the few obstacles where the horse looks better coming off as opposed to rising into it. If I'm photographing from the front I tend to prefer a 45° angle (preferable on the inside if there's a turn involved) but for well known riders a head-on shot can look better especially if they have a famous facial expression like Mary King's smile.

The upshot is that you need to find your own style. Experiment, try different perspectives, and see what works for you.
 
I very rarely shooot side on at my events unless its dressage

33565_153016284731855_100000704543723_307065_5654538_n.jpg


This was Badminton 2010 and my preferred angle for Sj and XC
27749_440225437836_517797836_5629683_6041499_n.jpg



Personally i like to see most of the horse and rider in focus and i focus on the horses shoulder blade - i use f4 upwards - i very rarely get enough distance between horse and rider for good bokeh unless i'm zooming on on their elegant heads

24074_102154406484710_100000704543723_59157_455783_n.jpg


33565_153016288065188_100000704543723_307066_4095948_n.jpg
 
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admirable said:
Even taken at f2.8 with a fair bit of distance behind the rider this shot doesn't have the blur that can make the horse 'stand out'..
Click to expand...

it was shot at f3.5 and fairly close distance.
 
mercmanuk said:
Hi try the IS lens crank it down to f/4 and be a good distance away say 7/10 feet, zoom in on the object or if a person focus on the eye and shoot, zooms can give good Bokeh but i thinks it's practice thats makes perfect, shutter speed depending on light,


merc
Click to expand...

IS is for slow shutter speeds hand held. IS on a moving subject won't help much.....
 
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