Best full frame digital Nikon for legacy AI & AIS m/f lenses?

Neilmack

Neilmack

Suspended / Banned
Messages
669
Edit My Images
No
Which full frame digital body works best with legacy manual focus lenses? I've not found the rangefinder confirmation dot on DX cameras all that good. Does any FX body have a decisively better focus aid (apart from live view)? Or is this a fool's errand?
 
Neilmack said:
Which full frame digital body works best with legacy manual focus lenses? I've not found the rangefinder confirmation dot on DX cameras all that good. Does any FX body have a decisively better focus aid (apart from live view)? Or is this a fool's errand?
Click to expand...

Not going to much help as I suspect you will probably need to try different cameras out for yourself. I use 24mm, 55mm, 105mm and 300mm AIs lenses on a D7000 and D600, and normally just focus using the screen. The D600 is probably a bit easier than the D7000, but not really thought about it. The 24mm is tricky, but it always has been. For distant shots I use the distance scales and for critical close up work I use magnified live view, not really an issue for me as I'm nearly always on a tripod. Manual focussing has never been that easy, and Nikon have always made magnifying eyepieces to help.

e.g https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-4793...024&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+magnifying+eyepiece

but there are different models for different Nikon models.

There are also some interchangeable screens still available for some Nikon models that have a split screen rangefinder which may help (you will need to search to find details on this), but I used to hate these when they came as standard and always swapped them for something else.

I also use them with adaptors on Fuji and Panasonic cameras with focus peaking, but haven't found that particularly easy to use, but pressing the rear control wheel to magnify the centre of the screen on the Fuji works well. This is with the XE1 and more modern Fuji's are meant to better at manual focussing. Not full frame of course, but maybe that points the way towards a Sony A7, with an adaptor, as being a possible option.

The new Nikon D850 is meant to have improved manual focusing, not sure what, and at a price !!
 
@myotis

Interesting. I hadn't really thought in terms of a Sony A7, and I am a bit disappointed to learn that the D610 isn't appreciably better at focusing an m/f lens. A Nikon camera would maintain auto-diaphragm action, but if the Sony is materially better at focusing non-a/f lenses, that's a worthwhile sacrifice.

I think I shall postpone the decision on the D850 until I actually win the football pools.
 
Last edited:
With the Sony A7 I find focus peaking quite accurate at wider apertures but less useful at smaller ones as everything peaks which may be good enough for a whole image but may not stand up to pixel peeping. The magnified view does however allow very accurate manual focusing. I use old manual focus lenses a lot on my A7.

Mirrorless cameras are IMO worth at least a look if you want to use old lenses. The "ff" mirrorless choice is at the mo limited to Sony and Leica.

Another point. I use old manual lenses on my MFT cameras too but they perform better on the A7 and produce much sharper results, an effect of the reduced magnification when using ff no doubt.
 
Neilmack said:
@myotis

Interesting. I hadn't really thought in terms of a Sony A7, and I am a bit disappointed to learn that the D610 isn't appreciably better at focusing an m/f lens. A Nikon camera would maintain auto-diaphragm action, but if the Sony is materially better at focusing non-a/f lenses, that's a worthwhile sacrifice.

I think I shall postpone the decision on the D850 until I actually win the football pools.
Click to expand...

Since my last post, I've actually taken out my D7000 and D600 to compare, and I can't see any obvious difference, which supports the impression I had from just using them. I also tried my FM2 with the same lens, and although it has a split image screen, the ground glass focussing was only slightly better, if better at all.

Not that I'm trying to sell Sony as my limited experience of trying them at dealers has left me less than excited about them, but assuming its the same as working on a fuji, the lack of automatic diaphragm isn't really an issue, depending on what you need to do. The lens needs to be manually stopped down but the viewfinder increases brightness to compensate. So you can use manual metering and aperture priority metering without issue (no exif data though)

As to how it will improve the ease of focussing you will really need to try it out, as I'm not sure how much better it will be. Focus peaking for example which sounds excellent, and it is, if I am focussing on something with an obvious contrasty edge against a plain background. But if I am trying to focus on a specific flower or twig in an image full of other twigs or flowers. I have found you get such a complex mess of focus peaking lines, that its more difficult than trying to focus without focus peaking. So you need to be able to be able to quickly switch focus peaking off and on.

But as I said I have never found precise manual focussing to be quick or easy. And although, I mainly use AIs lenses I also have AF lenses for when rapid focussing is important.

But on balance I reckon the choices that mirrorless give you for manual focussing probably makes them a better option than a DSLR.

I would start with the the Nikon eyepiece magnifier, and see how I got on with it before, switching cameras. It might also be worth asking around about the Nikon Df as it has been designed very much with legacy lenses in mind, even pre AI lenses that will break other Nikon DSLRs if not converted to AI. Its a popular choice for legacy lens enthusiasts, (see the Nikon manual lens thread at Fred Miranda) but so are Fuji and Sony, and D700s, D600s, and D8xxx
 
woof woof said:
With the Sony A7 I find focus peaking quite accurate at wider apertures but less useful at smaller ones as everything peaks which may be good enough for a whole image but may not stand up to pixel peeping.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of that, as of course you are focussing at the working aperture, so you have lots of depth of field. I suppose the way round that, is to focus wide open, and then stop down for the picture. As I said in another post, I often find focus peaking very confusing at times when everything seems to be peaking.
 
myotis said:
As to how it will improve the ease of focussing you will really need to try it out, as I'm not sure how much better it will be. Focus peaking for example which sounds excellent, and it is, if I am focussing on something with an obvious contrasty edge against a plain background. But if I am trying to focus on a specific flower or twig in an image full of other twigs or flowers. I have found you get such a complex mess of focus peaking lines, that its more difficult than trying to focus without focus peaking. So you need to be able to be able to quickly switch focus peaking off and on.

But as I said I have never found precise manual focussing to be quick or easy. And although, I mainly use AIs lenses I also have AF lenses for when rapid focussing is important.

But on balance I reckon the choices that mirrorless give you for manual focussing probably makes them a better option than a DSLR.
Click to expand...

When too much is peaking you have a few options... you can just take the shot and avoid pixel peeping and worrying if the exact twig you wanted to be the point of sharp focus isn't, you can focus with peaking at a wider aperture and then stop down to take the shot or you can get close with peaking and call up the magnified view and fine tune.

I think it is worth saying that peaking even with smaller apertures will probably give good results for whole image viewing. Even AF may not focus on the exact point of the exact twig you have in mind and it may be that with AF or peaking that it's only when pixel peeping that you see where the point of critical focus is.
 
Last edited:
myotis said:
I hadn't thought of that, as of course you are focussing at the working aperture, so you have lots of depth of field. I suppose the way round that, is to focus wide open, and then stop down for the picture. As I said in another post, I often find focus peaking very confusing at times when everything seems to be peaking.
Click to expand...

Yes :D

You posted as I was typing.

I think it's worth practicing to see what works best for you.
 
woof woof said:
I think it is worth saying that peaking even with smaller apertures will probably give good results for whole image viewing. Even AF may not focus on the exact point of the exact twig you have in mind and it may be that with AF or peaking that it's only when pixel peeping that you see where the point of critical focus is.
Click to expand...

I'm not really a fan of AF at all, even with my AF lenses I tend to only switch it on when it offers an obvious benefit. I think the great benefit of mirrorless is that it gives a choice, normal focusing, peaking or a magnified image, and you can switch to which one works best. On my Fuji, (using adapted Nikon lenses) its easy to very quickly switch from one to the other, as the circumstances dictate. Overall, while I still prefer my DSLRs, mirrorless is certainly more versatile in terms of MF lenses.
 
I've found the D610 good with the focus indication system & MF lenses - better than AF in poor lighting, to the point where I'll turn off AF in a dark pub. I use a Nikon 28 f3.5, 135 f2.8 and a Samyang 85 f1.4.

Examples: https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/gospel-bell.638922/ Earlier shots were with 50 f/1.8 on manual, later shots with Samyang and a couple with 135 f2.8.
 
Last edited:
ancient_mariner said:
I've found the D610 good with the focus indication system & MF lenses - better than AF in poor lighting, to the point where I'll turn off AF in a dark pub. I use a Nikon 28 f3.5, 135 f2.8 and a Samyang 85 f1.4.
Click to expand...

That's useful to know, is this because the AF hunts a lot, or because it mis-focusses, or a bit of both?
 
myotis said:
That's useful to know, is this because the AF hunts a lot, or because it mis-focusses, or a bit of both?
Click to expand...

It hunts a little, but also it can be difficult to remain still enough with the spot hovering over the point one wants in focus, plus once the correct point is found I can easily recompose & shoot.
 
I have never held one but isn't the Df sort of designed for this purpose?
 
ancient_mariner said:
It hunts a little, but also it can be difficult to remain still enough with the spot hovering over the point one wants in focus, plus once the correct point is found I can easily recompose & shoot.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that seems to make sense.
 
Peter123 said:
I have never held one but isn't the Df sort of designed for this purpose?
Click to expand...

I did suggest a Df as an option in an earlier post, as mechanically its designed to take legacy lenses including the pre-AI lenses that will break other modern Nikon DSLRs, but I don't know if its possible to assume this also means it is any better for manual focussing.

Actually, I've just done a search through some forums and it seems its no better at manual focussing than other Nikon DSLRs.
 
Interesting discussion. I had hoped that Nikon offered better support for manual focus on their more up-market cameras, but apparently not. I shall have to try the Sony's focus assistance - if it's anything like that on the Fuji X-Pro1 it will fall short.

Thanks for your valuable inputs, guys.
 
Neilmack said:
Interesting discussion. I had hoped that Nikon offered better support for manual focus on their more up-market cameras, but apparently not. I shall have to try the Sony's focus assistance - if it's anything like that on the Fuji X-Pro1 it will fall short.

Thanks for your valuable inputs, guys.
Click to expand...

There are some instructions here for changing the screen on the Df https://richardhaw.com/2016/09/11/mod-nikon-df-split-prism/. Which I believe will also work with some other Nikon models as well, assuming a split image screen would work for you. As I said earlier I used to hate them, but if you have the right subject matter they do add some confidence to the focus point.

But I realise I'm not sure what you are looking for. Manual focussing has always been difficult, with you needing to focus a bit behind and then a bit in front of the subject several times until you get the "least out of focus" position. I've never had a manual focus camera (and I have had top of the range manual only Canons, Nikons, Hasselblads and Mamiyas) that didn't need a fair bit of effort with the focussing.

Wide open the Nikon manual focus lenses are less contrasty than modern AF lenses, so this is also going to make them trickier to focus manually. In fact I hadn't really thought about this, but my AF lenses are almost certainly easier to manually focus than my Nikon AIs lenses are :-(
 
AF lenses tend to have shorter "throws" between far and close focussing distances and have a less positive feel with the MF ring. MF is possible with them but is far easier IME&O with older MF lenses, although the dimmer viewfinders and lack of focussing aids in most AF cameras make it harder than it was on older MF only bodies.
 
myotis said:
There are some instructions here for changing the screen on the Df https://richardhaw.com/2016/09/11/mod-nikon-df-split-prism/. Which I believe will also work with some other Nikon models as well, assuming a split image screen would work for you. As I said earlier I used to hate them, but if you have the right subject matter they do add some confidence to the focus point.

But I realise I'm not sure what you are looking for. Manual focussing has always been difficult, with you needing to focus a bit behind and then a bit in front of the subject several times until you get the "least out of focus" position. I've never had a manual focus camera (and I have had top of the range manual only Canons, Nikons, Hasselblads and Mamiyas) that didn't need a fair bit of effort with the focussing.

Wide open the Nikon manual focus lenses are less contrasty than modern AF lenses, so this is also going to make them trickier to focus manually. In fact I hadn't really thought about this, but my AF lenses are almost certainly easier to manually focus than my Nikon AIs lenses are :-(
Click to expand...

As an enthusiastic amateur visual astronomer, I seem to spend my life manually focusing! My interest is in landscape photography, so the extra-fiddling time really isn't the issue. I always got on well with the split image screen - even the micro-prism collar - of old-style SLRs. But you have certainly alerted me to the issues, for which I'm grateful.

Many thanks
Neil
 
Some DX Nikons offer a rangefinder scale display which works well. But it's really just an expanded version of the focus indicators that are in all Nikons (left arrow/front focused, right arrow/back focused, dot/in focus, both arrows/confused). IME the focus indicators are generally more accurate than my eyes anymore.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top