Best Equipment for Portraits??

kira

kira

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Kira
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I am really trying to get into Portrait Photography

I have a canon 400D with a 18-55mm lens, a 50mm f/1.8 lens and a Tamron 70-300mm lens

I'm not happy with any of my photos, they are no where near as crisp and clean as I want them to be

I just wanted some advice on what better set up's there are for this kind of photography and then maybe I can start saving up for some better equipment!

Thank You :)
 
400D with those lenses is perfectly capable of taking crisp portaits. I have pretty much the same getup, though I have a sigmas 18-200 as my third lens, which rarely comes off the camera.

Use the 50mm a little bit less than wide open and it can produce some ridiculously crisp shots. Can't quite produce shots to match real pro bodies in anything other than perfect conditions, but you can get pretty damn close.

That said, easiest ugrade (and one I keep contemplating) is to a second hand 40D body.
 
Any chance of posting some, give us an idea of what you are getting, there should be no reason to not get good shots form your kit, it may be down to some of the settings you are using, so posting a sample or 2 will help us guide you :)
 
I agree post a couple for crit and advice

However: That said the prime lens (50mm f1.8) is a classic portrait lens

Les :thumbs:
 
As already said you should be able to get some good results with the 50mm, post up some pic's so people can advise where you could be going wrong.
 
I see you have already asked for set up advice in other post's so stick up some results, don't be shy all anyone will do here is try to help you improve or get the results your after.
 
What aperture would you say was the 50mm f/1.8 sweet spot in terms of most crisp and sharp?
 
From what I know the 50mm f1.8 (though it's pretty sharp at f1.8!) is very sharp at f2.8 and still retains that lovely shallow depth of field. As said, a 400D with a 50mm and you're pretty well set, just go and practise your heart out.
 
I have various bodies from a 10D, 30D and a 5D, the 50mm 1.8 is one of my favourite portrait lenses on the 5 & 30D's.

Sharp as a tack from 2.8-f11. Gets a little tricky below f2 but I have had this produce great shots at 1.8...

You have the lens, just go and practice.
 
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When shooting at f/1.4 to around f2.8 it can be tricky to nail focus. Around f4 or f5.6 should be 'idiot proof'. Your ISO may be too high or shutter speed too low?
 
Kira,

I had a quick look at your pictures and they aren't too bad at all, I think your being a little harsh on yourself.

Things to help you improve though; the only one I looked at the EXIF on was taken at 1/30s F4 ISO-400 50mm Focal/Length. The shutter speed is too low, aim for a maximum of 1/80s (1/(Focal Length x Crop Factor) to avoid handshake) and preferably around 1/200 to avoid any blur from subject movements.

Are you doing any sharpening - that will crisp up the edges of the images significantly.
 
I have tried sharpening but then I feel like I get noise, possible because I only have a free download of a program called Photoscape.

Irelanst.... can you explain this a bit more

(1/(Focal Length x Crop Factor) to avoid handshake)

I don't understand what that mean =/ sorry, I am a bit dumb!
 
The 400d is a crop sensor (smaller than full frame, which you see at the top end of canons range). Yhe fact that the sensor is smaller means your lenses act as if they had a longer focal length. On the 400D the sensor is 1.6 times smaller.

So, let's say you're using a 50mm lens. On a 1.6 crop sensor this is effectively 80mm

Using the formula given above you would want your shutter speed to be greater than or equal to 1/80 to eliminate camera shake

That's just a guideline, some people require it to be higher, others can get away with less
 
Hi Kira

What Irelanst is trying to say is what has been said on the other thread you started about F stops. The choice of minimum shutter speed should be no less than the focal length of the lens thus 50mm = 1/50 however with what are called cropped sensor bodies like the 400D you need to account for the 'effective focal length' (forget the science ~ you can go Google it), you multiply the 50mm by 1.6 thus the effective focal length is 80mm hence using a min of 1/80s

Also I forgot to add a point for you on the other thread:-

re: choice of focusing point ~ by default all focus points are active (how many light up red in the viewfinder when you half press the shutter?) I and many other photographers use the focus point most appropriate for the subject and subjects position in the frame ~ for most it will be the central one!

So in haste I had a quick look at your Gallery images and the one with the model against the tree the sharpest point of focus seems to be the ivy growing on the tree, did the camera decide the ivy was the subject???

Oh, and go and get a copy of Photoshop Elements and a good book on hwo to get the best out of it ;)

Edit ~ I see Squawk posted whilst I was still typing and has said the same thing :D
 
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The slowest I ever go is 1/60 as any slower u get subject blur. I try to keep to 1/100 or fast when using 50mm or 24-70.
 
I think you're well on the way, so some general comments to get a bit more punch.

Nail the focus absolutely on the eyes. Just on the face is not good enough when your depth of field i just a few mms. Use single-point AF.

Flat light gives flat images, eg shade. Sometimes that's good, eg babies, but more directional lighting, eg from the side, will bring out shape and texture.

Choose more colourful subjects, and bright colourful backgrounds.

Check your Picture Styles, in the camera menu. They make a dramatic difference. Try some test shots of the same subject and shoot with the contrast at max and min, then saturation at max and min, and sharpness at max and min.

You can change Picture Styles after taking the picture by shooting Raw and post processing. Use the free software that came on CD with your camera, called Digital Photo Professional - it's very good. Canon have updated it a few times since the 400D so download a free upgrade from any Canon website.
 
People have said a few times about focus points.......

apart from the twins and the girl against the tree (so basically the 4 I have taken this month) I did use the centre focal point and I focused on the eye with the little girl and the nose with the cat.

So I have been doing focal points/trying out the F points and aperture, yet they still seem out of focus to me.... even if I focus right on the eye, still doesn't seem to be crisp :'( Maybe because I'm indoors??

But outside I cannot get her to stand still or even look at me so that's really not working..... yet I need to get some good ones by the end of the month as her mum (my good friend) would like some for her and her family. She seems happy with what I'm coming up with but I personally am not :shrug:
 
Ok so here is an attempt from today......

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kira_farrow/5950531386/in/photostream

I went outside and tried my hardest to get her to sit still!

I had it on AV so the shutter speed is supposed to do it itself right?

So.....AV mode
f/4
shutter 1/1000
ISO 400
focal length 50mm
I had it on focal point and in the centre
I focused on the eye
Used ONE SHOT (which is usually what it stays on) and also tried AI FOCUS although this didn't seem to work, and they were even more out of focus when she was moving?

Yet still is no where near coming out and crisp as this....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/svallis/1252182855/sizes/z/

*Cries :'(
 
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Think the one you linlk to as an example has had some editing, to punch the colours, also the light on the face is better, yours is not to bad, just lacking in light slightly, i.e. quite bright one side shadow the other, moving to the side would help, work with the light you have, also when in AV yep it picks shutter speed but sometimes needs a helping hand, may be worth reading up on exposuer compensation, as a little bit of + (over exposueer) may have helped.
 
That is crisp enough really, pull the subject further from the background and shoot at F2.8 and see if that improves things. 2.8 for a distance shot is fine, a face shot you would want to use higher though (4.5-8 sort of range).

As others have said, sharpening & contrast tweaking via a program can give a sharper look.
 
kira said:
I have tried sharpening but then I feel like I get noise, possible because I only have a free download of a program called Photoscape.

Irelanst.... can you explain this a bit more

(1/(Focal Length x Crop Factor) to avoid handshake)

I don't understand what that mean =/ sorry, I am a bit dumb!
Click to expand...

If you've had the camera from new you'll have a program called DPP on the CD. This should do all the sharpening you need for the moment.
 
kira said:
Ok so here is an attempt from today......

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kira_farrow/5950531386/in/photostream

I went outside and tried my hardest to get her to sit still!

I had it on AV so the shutter speed is supposed to do it itself right?

So.....AV mode
f/4
shutter 1/1000
ISO 400
focal length 50mm
I had it on focal point and in the centre
I focused on the eye
Used ONE SHOT (which is usually what it stays on) and also tried AI FOCUS although this didn't seem to work, and they were even more out of focus when she was moving?

Yet still is no where near coming out and crisp as this....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/svallis/1252182855/sizes/z/

*Cries :'(
Click to expand...

Are you aware that if you focus and recompose, at close distance and with a low f/number (ie very shallow DoF) this shifts the focus? When you reposition the camera, the distance changes by a few mm and in circumstances like this, that's enough to throw it out. Use the focus point nearest to the eyes.

AI Focus isn't very reliable. Try AI Servo.

You could also try fill-in flash, that will make them sparkle. Be careful not to overdo it though. Use Av, pop up the flash and shoot - simple as that. You can then adjust the flash-to-ambient balance with the +/- compensation controls - as normal to adjust the brightness of the background, and in the flash menu to adjust the flash (see handbook).

You must keep the shutter speed to 1/200sec or longer (camera's max x-sync speed) if you're using the pop-up. If you're outside in bright light and want to use a low f/number, this will be difficult as the shutter speed will naturally need to rise to quite a fast speed. Use the lowest ISO to help get the lowest f/number you can get. If that's not enough, you either need a gun with high speed sync facility, or a neutral density filter to reduce the overall brightness of the light.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Are you aware that if you focus and recompose, at close distance and with a low f/number (ie very shallow DoF) this shifts the focus? When you reposition the camera, the distance changes by a few mm and in circumstances like this, that's enough to throw it out. Use the focus point nearest to the eyes.
Click to expand...

Does this happen even with the one shot setting? As that's the one I always use....
 
Yeah, think of the focus point as a parallel line (to the sensor). So if you move it is will become slightly skewed.

This is known as the focal plane so if you shift after focus, the focus zone will also move relative to where you originally focussed.

Depending on how much Depth of Field you have, the focus and recompose method may or may not move outwith the zone of acceptable sharpness.

The diagrams here may help, figure 3 in particular. http://www.anstendig.org/AutofocusFlaw.html


Andy
 
AndyB1976 said:
Yeah, think of the focus point as a parallel line (to the sensor). So if you move it is will become slightly skewed.

This is known as the focal plane so if you shift after focus, the focus zone will also move relative to where you originally focussed.

Depending on how much Depth of Field you have, the focus and recompose method may or may not move outwith the zone of acceptable sharpness.

The diagrams here may help, figure 3 in particular. http://www.anstendig.org/AutofocusFlaw.html


Andy
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So what do you do when you are trying to focus on something moving a lot?
 
kira said:
So what do you do when you are trying to focus on something moving a lot?
Click to expand...

You have to keep the focus point nailed to the subject, and keep checking and re-checking it. Or, if the movement is frequent or constant, use AI Servo that will track it.

Or use a higher f/number so that depth of field will cover any errors.
 
HoppyUK said:
You have to keep the focus point nailed to the subject, and keep checking and re-checking it. Or, if the movement is frequent or constant, use AI Servo that will track it.

Or use a higher f/number so that depth of field will cover any errors.
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I actually think I should just give up because I have actually tried all this :'(
 
Yeah, you can close that aperture down a couple of stops let say to f8 and compensate with the shutter to 1/250 and that will increase your depth of field whilst retaining exposure.

If the subject is moving around erratically you won't be able to (read I can't lol) focus and recompose. So I would just try and nail a centre focus point and maybe crop later to frame the shot.

If you are just starting out, maybe your technique isn't great, maybe the lens doesn't have the fastest focus motor or the camera the best at focus tracking so if a little cropping afterwards gets the framing I'd personally settle for that.
 
kira said:
I actually think I should just give up because I have actually tried all this :'(
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I don't think your shots look all that bad. I see your sharpness level is at 2 on the Exif, I think this is the default for the Portrait setting, whereas General is 3:thinking:

I reckon some editing could bring your images closer to what you what. There is a method called High Pass sharpening which shouldn't increase noise dramatically.

Here is the forum tutorial http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=28733
 
kira said:
I actually think I should just give up because I have actually tried all this :'(
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Dont give up :) It will come. Practice is key :)

Your shots looks good to be honest, nicely composed. The only thing I would add is perhaps the lighting hasnt been ideal in a couple of the shots, which may benefit from a touch of flash (bounced with a diffuser on perhaps).

In terms of editing, I'd be happy to run a couple of your shots through Photoshop to see what the differences are. If you'd like me to have a whirl, see if you can upload the raw's somewhere ?

Actually - are you shooting in Raw or Jpeg? The JPEG compression in camera could be flattening your image.....(?)
 
I have never shot in RAW as I don't know enough about it and what to do after :thinking:

Literally all I've really learnt is a small amount about the F numbers, shutter speed, ISO, and things like that

I also thought that when you chose your focal point and locked it, that is what it should stay on but it turns out that's not always the case

I've tried taking photos on the actual sports setting as I had a 2 year old running round the garden..... none focused properly so I tried what it said to do in the manual.... none focused properly

I will admit she is sooo hard to get a picture of as she does not stop running around and doesn't ever really look at the camera so it has been really, really hard.

I'm just upset as I think I am trying out all these tips and even trying things from the manual but just don't think I can do it :'(
 
Hi Kira

I see one of the other posters also mentioned avoiding "focus & recompose" being a poor choice of technique.

Can I literally suggest you step back ~ are you chasing that little firebrand around using the 50mm lens? If so then IMO you are on a hiding to nothing to get more than a very few keeper images. The best I have had with my great niece & nephews is when they are engaging with a toy or something that has captured their attention. Sorry back to the point I was about to make.

What other lenses do you have? The reason I ask is do you have one long enough so you can be say 20ft away from her, all being well she will stop trying to tease you and just possibly she will find things that will slow her down??? Or as suggested using AI Servo (does work best with the quicker focusing lenses i.e how quick the focusing motor responds!) and also being further back say using a lens at 150m to 200mm at f7.1 or f8 the depth of field will be generous by comparison to the 50mm at closer distances and larger apertures. Having said that you need to be outdoors with good light to get the shutter speed up to a minimum of 1/400s

If you have a longer lens have go with that and stop killing yourself trying to capture IMO one of the hardest subjects known to man :lol:

Oh if you are shooting from that greater distance the chances are if she is running around and towards her mum say then her direction will be more predictable>>>>>>>>practice, practice etc. And do try to defuse her mums expectations as surely she can see what handfull her little one is!
 
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kira said:
I have never shot in RAW as I don't know enough about it and what to do after :thinking:

Literally all I've really learnt is a small amount about the F numbers, shutter speed, ISO, and things like that

I also thought that when you chose your focal point and locked it, that is what it should stay on but it turns out that's not always the caseI've tried taking photos on the actual sports setting as I had a 2 year old running round the garden..... none focused properly so I tried what it said to do in the manual.... none focused properly

I will admit she is sooo hard to get a picture of as she does not stop running around and doesn't ever really look at the camera so it has been really, really hard.

I'm just upset as I think I am trying out all these tips and even trying things from the manual but just don't think I can do it :'(
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Hi Kira

I just spotted this statement! Now unless there is something about the 400D that is very different to say my old 350D or my 40D, when I select the central focus point it stays on that until I make the change.....so I am puzzled by what you say??? Having said that I have never used the "set modes" such as sport so the behaviour you mention could be down to the mode you are in (calling other 400D users ~ any feedback?) FWIW I use mainly Av (aperture priority) and sometimes Tv (shutter priority). I use one shot mostly but switch to AI Servo with fast moving sports such a soccer, also for some wildlife subjects and airshows.

Keep at it and do not get disheartened :thumbs:
 
I didn't mean like the camera changed it lol

Just that in the manual it says you hold the button half way down and it locks the bit you want in focus and then you can re-position the camera and take the shot.....

But earlier on in the thread someone said it wont always stay on the focused area or like it still may focus somewhere else...... but I think maybe that was if the subject was moving??

I'm so confused with everything I've read and tried to take in today I think my head is going to explode :bonk:
 
The English language causing confusion once again.

First point to make. The camera has no clue what you are focusing it on, it just finds a point of contrast on the focus point you selected, and sets the focus at that distance.

So, lets say your subject is a stationary object 10 feet away. You focus on it exactly and "lock focus", as you put it. Then you move the camera.

The object you focused on does NOT stay in focus. Instead, the camera maintains focus at a distance of exactly 10 feet from itself, no matter what you point it at. What you've told the camera to do is to keep focus at a certain distance, not on a certain object.

When you photograph your kid, if you focus on the eye, then the kid moves, the focus on the eye is lost. The camera will keep focus at whatever distance you have focused on.

Once you have focus (half press of shutter), fully depress it straight away. To my eye it looks like the focus in that image you posted is on the sleeve, not on the eyes.
 
Squawk said:
The English language causing confusion once again.

First point to make. The camera has no clue what you are focusing it on, it just finds a point of contrast on the focus point you selected, and sets the focus at that distance.

So, lets say your subject is a stationary object 10 feet away. You focus on it exactly and "lock focus", as you put it. Then you move the camera.

The object you focused on does NOT stay in focus. Instead, the camera maintains focus at a distance of exactly 10 feet from itself, no matter what you point it at. What you've told the camera to do is to keep focus at a certain distance, not on a certain object.

When you photograph your kid, if you focus on the eye, then the kid moves, the focus on the eye is lost. The camera will keep focus at whatever distance you have focused on.

Once you have focus (half press of shutter), fully depress it straight away. To my eye it looks like the focus in that image you posted is on the sleeve, not on the eyes.
Click to expand...

Ok now I understand that.... so how DO you get say the eyes or face in focus if they are moving?

Also.... If I am taking a photo of say 3/4 people Where do I put my focus to get them all in focus?

Thank you by the way :)
 
Locking the focus locks the distance. Obviously this changes if the subject or the photographer moves, but with focus-recompose technique you are moving the camera very slightly between focusing and then reframing to shoot.

It's only a few mms, and normally when your DoF is measured in feet or yards it makes no odds, but when you're close and using a low f/number, your DoF is so shallow it makes a difference.

Don't use the scene modes - they mess with the picture styles as well as the main control settings. Sometimes they will be way off optimum, because not all portraits are the same, not all action shots the same, not all landscapes etc etc. Learn to use Av.

IMHO you are trying to run before you can walk, and tackling a tough subject. Take it easy, read and learn, practise, read and learn, then practise some more. There's some good advice on this thread. You'll get there :)

Edit: crossed post with Squawk

PS Your question about tracking a moving subject has been answered - AI Servo. On the group shot focus position, about one third into the group will optimise depth of field in front and behind the point of focus. You need to understand depth of field and how it changes (focal length, distance, f/number). Have a play with the DoF calculator here www.dofmaster.com
 
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