BBC Panorama: The fraud costing the UK £1bn a year

Aye, tax evasion and avoidance supposedly costs the UK nearly £47 billion a year but by all means take your TV program and go after the little guys, the easy targets.
 
Stuff like this is no different from people using the grey market to avoid tax. Loads on here have evaded tax.
 
nog said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42143849

Maybe time to sell the Panamoz shares:), though as the government have announced laws to be tightened to prevent online VAT fraud probably no need to worry at all. :rolleyes:
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Careful, lots of folk here get very uppity if you start calling out their precious "grey" imports for what they actually are. I think officially we're still banned from even discussing it, on account of the uncomfortable history TP has of being part-funded by these criminal evaders.

Oops, I just called them what they are. A TP holiday beckons... :police:
 
Llamaman said:
Yup, still taboo on TP:

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...rey-imports-and-other-assorted-topics.512133/
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oddly enough I just "imported" £80 worth of goods from USA and received my FEDEX letter for £17 duty+admin fee.
I emailed them to say I have paid the duty to there account as requested but not the admin charge as I am not obliged to etc.
I googled it and found some copy text to include in email
got polite email back saying thanks, we have cancelled the admin charge.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
They are after the small guys yet again while Amazon and Google still pay hardly any tax...
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Steep said:
Aye, tax evasion and avoidance supposedly costs the UK nearly £47 billion a year but by all means take your TV program and go after the little guys, the easy targets.
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Amazon and Google avoid paying tax by legitimate means, now I'm not saying I don't have a problem with that, I do, but Panomoz and other grey importers try and evade paying tax, which is a different matter all together. They will pay if customs pick it up, but I wonder how many of their parcels go through customs without paying the tax.
 
Missing the point entirely. Collecting the forty six billion pounds evaded and avoided by corporations and rich fuggers with their cash off shore is hard, so go after the little guy, the ones who can't afford accountants and lawyers because easy headlines and smoke screens.
 
Llamaman said:
Yup, still taboo on TP:
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I'm not sure I see the Taboo part?
Its a 3.5 year old thread that Matt posted for information.
Matt said:
This sticky is meant as information only,.
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The official line is, because someone advertises on TP, be that UK or from elsewhere, it doesn't mean we endorse them...
Llamaman said:
A TP holiday beckons... :police:
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Why? do you think you deserve one? you only have to ask nicely and I'll happily oblige :thumbs:
:p
 
Steep said:
Missing the point entirely. Collecting the forty six billion pounds evaded and avoided by corporations and rich fuggers with their cash off shore is hard, so go after the little guy, the ones who can't afford accountants and lawyers because easy headlines and smoke screens.
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They can't chase for tax which was avoided by the big boys, because it was avoided legally. They can, and should, change the system, to prevent it.

All business, big and small, should be chased for taxes evaded.
 
Cobra said:
I'm not sure I see the Taboo part?
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Selective reading or just quit early?
Any and all discussions on the above topics will be contained in the one thread. It will NOT be acceptable to drag EVERY thread on buying from non-eu countries into the same discussions.
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Llamaman said:
quit early?
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Nope still couldn't find the word "Taboo"

But really, how many threads have you seen on that very subject (Grey imports?)
That's right, countless, so as you can see, its a rule that isn't "Hard enforced"
 
LongLensPhotography said:
They are after the small guys yet again while Amazon and Google still pay hardly any tax...
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Yeah, because no one ever wrote about Amazon and Google, the MSM is part of the conspiracy to completely hide it. o_O
 
Tax fraud is a hard subject to tackle, many ordinary people see it as a victory saving a few quid getting into the governments hands.
Multiply that by millions or even billions for the big boys, the whole evasion thing is endemic throughout society.

Yes big corporations are paying less than they should, is that any worse than dodging vat on imports or paying tradesmen in cash off the books.
If you don't think all of the above are criminal activities it shows how hard it is to educate the population on tax evasion and the effect lost revenue has on the public purse.
 
Now, now. We know it's only immoral when other people do it.
 
jakeblu said:
Amazon and Google avoid paying tax by legitimate means, now I'm not saying I don't have a problem with that, I do, but Panomoz and other grey importers try and evade paying tax, which is a different matter all together. They will pay if customs pick it up, but I wonder how many of their parcels go through customs without paying the tax.
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Legitimate?

The other day I bought a gadget on Amazon from an established marketplace seller. "Despatched from UK" the relevant offer proclaimed, When it arrived, late, from Switzerland, with an under-declared customs valuation I mentioned this dishonesty on the feedback i gave.

Amazon promptly crossed my feedback out.
 
That panorama programme neither understood nor addressed the real issues. It isn't about whether or not the sellers SHOW a VAT number, it's about whether or not they actually pay the VAT and duty... and also about under declaration of value and false declaration of contents.

Everyone who is in business importing goods legally knows that, it seems that the government and BBC doesn't.
 
Unless a foreign seller specifically states "Incoterms: DDP" on their invoice, it's the responsibility of the UK buyer to ensure that the required import duty & taxes are paid.
It doesn't matter if the seller has "promised" they'll pay it, the buyer still bears responsibility.
 
Steep said:
Missing the point entirely. Collecting the forty six billion pounds evaded and avoided by corporations and rich fuggers with their cash off shore is hard, so go after the little guy, the ones who can't afford accountants and lawyers because easy headlines and smoke screens.
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Avoidance is legal. I pay into an ISA to avoid tax on the interest earned. The law is structured in a way to permit this.
Evasion is illegal. Importing camera gear from the far east without paying appropriate duty and VAT is evasion and illegal, it is almost always the importer's responsibility to ensure that the appropriate duties and taxes are paid. Because the importer is a "little guy" makes no difference, and an accountant or lawyer isn't going to be much help with that either, the taxes are still due, not matter how expensive the lawyer you hire.

"little guys" need to understand that everyone should pay the taxes they are legally obliged to, including them. And yes, all of my new camera kit is bought from UK, VAT registered companies, all of my second hand kit has been bought from private individuals in the UK. I pay all of my taxes and abhor the culture of casual tax evasion the permeates so much of society, particularly the hypocrites that whinge about Amazon then happily pay trades cash.
 
Again, missing the point entirely. By all means chase the little guys but where are the panorama programs decrying the corporations, there's forty six more times the loss to the treasury there.
 
You think they haven't been extensively in the news over recent years? Barely a week goes by without taxes paid (or not paid) by multinationals being a prominent story somewhere along the way. When it's getting on the 6pm / 10pm news regularly, the role of an investigative program like Panorama in exposing something that is not widely known is kind of redundant. We all know that companies structure their tax affairs in a way to legally minimize the tax paid, it is their duty their shareholders (which are usually us, indirectly, if we pay in to private pensions).
 
onomatopoeia said:
You think they haven't been extensively in the news over recent years? Barely a week goes by without taxes paid (or not paid) by multinationals being a prominent story somewhere along the way. When it's getting on the 6pm / 10pm news regularly, the role of an investigative program like Panorama in exposing something that is not widely known is kind of redundant. We all know that companies structure their tax affairs in a way to legally minimize the tax paid, it is their duty their shareholders (which are usually us, indirectly, if we pay in to private pensions).
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I think you'll find quite a few pension funds mentioned in the Panama papers etc
 
onomatopoeia said:
We all know that companies structure their tax affairs in a way to legally minimize the tax paid, it is their duty their shareholders (which are usually us, indirectly, if we pay in to private pensions).
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It is not their duty to maximise profit, it is their duty to "promote the success of the business for the benefit of its members".

Nowhere does it state that is purely through making more money so they can pay larger dividentd.

In fact the 6 duties that make up the above can all point towards they should be paying tax, particulary;
the long-term consequences of their decisions
the interests of employees
the impact of corporate activities on the community and the environment

these three I especially feel have strong implications about paying your fair share
 
As previously mentioned the big guns are AVOIDING tax, mainly corporation tax by legal means/loopholes, the smaller players that are of interest to us are EVADING paying tax, primarily import duty and VAT.

This gives them a huge advantage price wise over UK retailers that are struggling to stay in business.
I just went and looked on Panamoz in order to reply on here, I'm looking at getting a Sony A7Riii in the near future, best price here £3,199, Panamoz £2,880, thats £319 cheaper but the true cost of saving that £319 (which is not an insignificant sum to someone like me) is that I am then a criminal and may well have put the final nail in the coffin of a UK retailer that finds it has to close at it just can't compete and still make enough profit to make it worthwhile carrying on trading.

How many local camera shops have already gone under due to similar reasons? how many jobs have been lost?
There used to be at least 3 camera shops in my town, now there's just one and a large part of their trade is online sales and if we want to keep that shop we are going to have to use it or we'll eventually lose it along with the community of photographers/enthusiasts that use it as they're local hub.

I won't be buying from Panamoz, out of uk eBay retailer or other such companies because in my opinion anyone that does use them is helping to put our UK retailers out of business and they're employee's out of work, I can't live with the knowledge that I have helped destroy that which are still the local hubs of our community.
 
Steep said:
Again, missing the point entirely. By all means chase the little guys but where are the panorama programs decrying the corporations, there's forty six more times the loss to the treasury there.
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They already did one some time ago. IIRC correctly, it was focussed on the Barclay brothers.
I also recall it being s***; badly researched, misinformed and misleading - but that's par for the course when it comes to journalists trying to report on financial issues.
 
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