Bad lighting outside , don't know what to do?

A

annamoore1990

Suspended / Banned
Messages
15
Name
Annaliese
Edit My Images
No
Hi there,

I recently took my camera to my brothers wedding for a few snapshots during the day but outside was really hard to get good lighting.

I'm using a 500D Canon and an 18-55mm lens.

This shot i used f/22 .... IS0 1600 .. Exposure time 1/20... with no flash..
If I used flash I was letting in too much light and the same if the fstop was any lower.

Please help.

I'm quite disheartened as it was my brothers wedding and a good chance to get some good shots.

Thanks
 
Hi Annaliese,

Is 1/20sec for the exposure time a typo????

That is a seriously weird set of exposure settings for that situation. You could probably have put the camera on "P" and got a better result if you could not work out what was going on.

And f22 will have started to kill the image sharpness, probably best not to go above f8/11 on a cameras such as yours.

Could you explain bit more what you were trying to do and what was happening as a result, especially the bit about the flash (on board or external?)

David
 
No its right. I was just having a play around and wasn't sure the best exp to put it on.

Was just trying to get a clear image but wasn't happening on anything I did.

I didn't use a flash. If i did use the camera flash it would have come out too bright

Annalise
 
if i changed the expo time to slower they were blurry and too bright and faster they were too dark
 
I've never shot a wedding photo, but I'd probably have used Av mode and f/8. You'd have enough depth of field to keep the couple in focus, whilst blurring the background and not letting it distract the eye from the main subject (the couple).
 
My guess is that you're shooting manual and you don't understand the exposure triangle. I haven't got the links handy, but if you do a search for that or look at the tutorial section you'll get an idea.

Just for example though, f5.6 was all the DoF you'd need wich would have given you a reasonable shutter speed and ISO.

I'd aim for approx 1/125 and then whatever ISO you'll be allowed.
 
Are you shooting in manual?
If you are finding it difficult to get a good shot then as suggested switch to P mode let the camera decide on the aperture and exposure. If you find the shutter speed is too long to get a steady shot then up the iso.
 
yes i was shooting in manual which is probably my mistake as ive been told manual is quite advanced and obviously i still need to learn a bit more about it.

thanks for your help.

Does anyone know any good resources where I can learn a bit more? And what the best way to learn is?

Thanks
 
The book "Understanding exposure", by Bryan Peterson, is a great reference.

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-3rd-Edition-Photographs/dp/0817439390

Here is a tutorial, of mine over at Digital Photography School, you may find helpful.
http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/tutorials/134022-exposure-1-balancing-act.html

What's the best way to learn depends on the individual, what you have access to, and how much money you want to spend.
Lots of tutorials and videos on the net (free for a lot of them).
Books.
Formal classes/courses (could be expensive).
 
This is a good tutorial http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/th...ure-theory-but-were-afraid-to-ask-101.440126/

You need to get to grips with the Exposure Triangle, and don't use manual until you have. Manual is not really an advanced method - think of it as more of a 'set and lock' mode - but if you don't know which settings to make, and why, you'll get in a pickle.

And a small dash of flash would have worked well there, it often does - on dull days to add a bit of sparkle, and on sunny days to lighten harsh shadows. The camera can do all these things for you automatically, though it's not infallible and you need to know when and how to override it.

Suggest start with Program mode, see how you get on, and be sure to check the settings the camera chooses and compare them to the Exposure Triangle. You'll soon get the hang of it, without learning the hard way by your mistakes :)

BTW, I'm not keen on Bryan Petersen's book and how he almost completely ignores modern digital ways of working.
 
ok thank you i will have a look at these links.. only thing with flash is I have a camera flash not an external flash x
 
annamoore1990 said:
ok thank you i will have a look at these links.. only thing with flash is I have a camera flash not an external flash x
Click to expand...

Well as it happens, for the kind of flash you need outdoors in daylight (known as fill-in flash) the camera's pop-up is very well suited. The idea is that it's used subtly, and sometimes automated flash is not very subtle, so you need to learn how to moderate it. Not at all difficult, but maybe leave that until you've got normal daylight exposure settings sorted.
 
annamoore1990 said:
yes i was shooting in manual which is probably my mistake as ive been told manual is quite advanced and obviously i still need to learn a bit more about it.

thanks for your help.

Does anyone know any good resources where I can learn a bit more? And what the best way to learn is?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I should save all these threads to hit people over the head with every time someone gets a camera and asks for advice and a dozen numpties shout 'put it in Manual it's the only way to learn'.

You really need to learn the basics, and the first lesson is, ensure you understand how to focus on the subject, and the second is understanding the exposure triangle and then how different apertures are used (that's used not just chosen) and how different shutter speeds are used (again, not simply selected).

There's loads of reading in the tutorial section of this site.
 
F5.6, ISO 800 and 1/125 would have given a similar ambient exposure. Adjust flash power down so it gives you enough for fill flash.


Steve.
 
Really just echo what has been said already - manual mode is only good for learning once you have got a grasp of the exposure triangle.

In the situation you described I would probably pick either P mode or TV with auto ISO. Set to 1/125th second and the camera will meter the scene and come up with an appropriate ISO and aperture. For times where the camera's suggested exposure is not right you can then use exposure compensation to fix that.

Should you wish to use your pop up flash that will be fine too, and again you can use Flash exposure compensation to reduce the power so the image is not too bright.

I appreciate these might be new terms for you, but well worth reading up and learning how they work on your camera
 
annamoore1990 said:
But on a day like this, f/8 would have been to dark?
Click to expand...

I think perhaps you are thinking the aperture/size of lens hole relationship the wrong way round! The largest hole that lets most light through on your lens is between f3.5 and f5.6 (depending on the focal length you have chosen), and the smallest hole, least light is f22.

You say here that f8 would be too dark, but you used f22 - this is three stops darker, which is only allowing 1/8 the amount of light that f8 lets in, assuming that shutter speed and iso remain the same.

You will learn a lot more and a lot quicker by going out with a fellow photographer and doing some simple exercises with the triangle of exposure as mentioned above, than trying to understand it from a book. Your avatar does not say where you are, but if anywhere near me, I will happily show you the basics of exposure.

Until you understand exposure a bit better, you won't go far wrong by setting the camera to AV mode, f5.6 and ISO of 200. That should be reasonable this time of year. You also need to check that you haven't inadvertently left the exposure compensation dial set to anything other than zero.

Hope that helps.
 
Apart from what has already been said about your choice of settings, you might have done better to stick it in P mode and concentrate on composition. What is that 'thing' between the people? Why is there so much dead space above them? I don't think the lighting is necessarily the 'worst' thing here.
 
It's no good telling the op to "do this" or "do that" in respect to ISO, exposure etc when they are quite obviously unsure how their equipment works in the first place. Maybe sitting down with your camera, lens, and the cameras manual would be a good start. Learn the different modes your camera has and in what situations it is beneficial to use them. As has been mentioned; learn the relationships between ISO, exposure and aperture.

Everyone has to start somewhere and hat's off for getting stuck in, but having a grasp on WHY you are adjusting settings to keep that exposure meter in the middle will help you no end.
 
Hi Anna,
Personally I would strongly advise you to leave the camera OFF manual mode and switch to a mode that allows you to control just one aspect of the triangle. I have always considered the advice "switch to manual to learn" absolute rubbish. You need to learn what depth of field is first of all and how the f stop affects it and then tag onto that lesson the minimum shutter speed for a handheld shot at any given focal length. (For example, at 200mm you really don't want to be shooting any slower than 1/200th, it's an easy lesson as you can just look at the focal length and ensure your faster than that number to keep it basic but impose a 60th minimum upon yourself is my advice. )

Let the camera worry about the other two points in the triangle while you get to grips with aperture and enjoy taking well exposed pictures for a while, then go out and play with shutter priority, maybe on birds or zoo animals and take note of how the camera adjusts aperture and ISO to allow the required shutter speed you chose.

Once you start taking a lot of keepers and become happy you can always "get the shot" you would then be as well to start learning the exposure triangle properly. The best way to do this is to set up a shot at any given value. Let's say, aperture mode, you set F8 and the camera sets the shutter to 1000th second and the ISO to 200. Now think to yourself, I want less depth of field, I'm going to use f2.8. Before you set it, can you predict exactly what shutter speed the camera is going to choose to keep exposure correct for you? If you Can, congratulations, your now ready for manual mode. If you can't, then stay away from manual until you can.

The fact is, once you switch to manual mode, you will wonder what all the fuss was about anyway and switch it back to a priority mode. lol.

**edited to remove crass joke at the end that I decided not to include. Lol. **
 
Last edited:
I think this guy Mike Browne is very good for learning , easy going, easy to understand, have a watch

H
 
Last edited:
http://camerasim.com/camera-simulator/ isn't bad at demonstrating the interaction between ISO / Shutter Speed and Aperture. Not as good as getting out there with your camera, but it does also allow you to play around with different lighting too.
 
Hi Anna,

One quick question - more for self-reflection really...
Why did you use the settings that you did?

If you don't know (which is perfectly good answer!), then Manual is not for you yet. If you do know, then I'd maybe check your understanding. As David said above, I suspect you've got your f-numbers mixed up - f/22 is the smallest your aperture will go (or close to...), so it's really restricting the light coming in. ISO 1600 is also pretty high for outdoors, and 1/20 is slow for a portrait shot - both of which are due to the trickle of light coming through the tiny aperture.

I would personally try to stick to either Av or Tv for now. It eliminates the guesswork, but still gives you control and helps increase your understanding.
The way I thought about it when I started out was as follows:
Tv - When the shutter speed is important
Av - When the depth of field is important*
I set the ISO at something constant, around ISO400 as your camera is pretty new.

As the ISO is now fixed, as you change either the shutter speed (Tv) or aperture (Av) you will also see the aperture/shutter-speed change to compensate. i.e. in Tv mode, as you speed up the shutter, the aperture will get bigger (smaller number) automatically. In Av mode, as you close the aperture down (smaller hole, bigger number, bigger depth of field) the shutter-speed will get slower.

Because your ISO is fixed, once the camera can't compensate anymore, either because it can't speed up/slow-down the shutter any further, or you're at maximum/minimum aperture, the camera will start to under/over-expose as indicated on the viewfinder or rear screen. You can then increase/decrease the ISO to compensate for this.
In reality, you end up changing ISO before this to avoid going to any extremes (you can't hand-hold a 5-second exposure, and f/22 will give pretty poor results).

Again, personally (and I'm sure many will disagree) I avoided Auto ISO at first as it became just another number changing in the viewfinder. When it's fixed, you get to know when and why to change it.

*Again, just to be controversial, I often flip these around. Normally an expert photographer with top-end great will know that for a portrait, DOF is the important thing so will set the aperture and adjust ISO to keep the shutter-speed high (at least 1/150) to ensure no motion-blur. BUT when I had a Canon 1000D with a kit lens, I would often use Tv to force a high shutter speed as I knew the maximum aperture was 3.5/5.6 (depending on zoom) which would be fine for a portrait and I really didn't want any blur. I would also increase the ISO to make sure it was correctly exposed. And this, is when you know you are ready for Manual mode.
(I say top-end kit, as the expensive cameras can produce stunning images at ISO3200 or more, so shutter-speed is rarely an issue. When I had my 1000D, ISO1600 was unusable!)

:)

Sorry, that was meant to be a quick reply!
 
Don't listen to all that 'manual is best' rubbish. I shoot 95% of my weddings in A mode and only switch to M when doing off camera flash work.

I'm not saying A is best, just that you need to choose the best mode for your circumstances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PMN
gadgeteer said:
Don't listen to all that 'manual is best' rubbish. I shoot 95% of my weddings in A mode and only switch to M when doing off camera flash work.

I'm not saying A is best, just that you need to choose the best mode for your circumstances.
Click to expand...

Me too, I think that's fairly typical.

There have been quite a few polls on various photo forums, about what modes people actually use and they all come out much the same. Aperture-priority is used most with manual coming a fairly close second. Shutter-priority and Program are used much less frequently, though of course a lot depends on the kind of subject and situation.
 
planetjamez said:
Using an off camera flash would have also helped with this
Click to expand...
Lol.

To the op, you just need to learn the basics of photography. The exposure triangle would be a good start as that is where you have gone wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top