Back To Basics...

68lbs

68lbs

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Ok, in a bid to improve the speed at which I take pictures, and to hopefully learn more, I am going back to basics as of tomorrow morning when I'm planning to shoot this month's comp pic.

So I'll only be using AV or TV! :gag: I'm also going to try to use the meter more to get the shot right first time, rather than taking educated guesses and using the histogram to correct and reshoot.

My question is simple... should I have the camera's metering set to evaluative, centre weighted, or partial (big spot). I think these are the 3 options.

I'm personally thinking that if I'm trying to speed things up, it needs to be evaluative with me using +ve/-ve exp comp depending on how I personally evaluate what's in the frame?

Am I right in thinking that if I set it to spot then I will have to meter for that bit, lock the exposure, then recompose - thus making the whole process just as slow as shooting manual?

Gawd, is it just me. I start to think I am making some forward progress and then suddenly find myself completely lacking and like I am back at the beginning?
 
Lee, I know just where your coming from. Just when you think you might have figured out what that setting does, it opens up a half dozen more different options.... I've been meaning to post about the various metering modes myself, you beat me to it, thanks :thumbs:
 
If you set the metering to spot it will only meter that part of the image. Sounds good , however suppose it is a sailing ship with a white sail you're photographing and the white sail is in the middle of the picture. It'll probably come out underexposed as the meter has seen only the highlight part of the image. To be honest leave spot alone for the time being.

I tend to use either evaluative or center weighted, and its dependent on the subject. Remember the meter is stupid. It's blindly following a set of rules. For complex lit subjects I tend to use evaluative, for others where the lighting is less complex center weighted. Always, always check the histogram though. It's the only real way you can evaluate the exposure out in the field.

You need to guide the exposure, The histogram will give you some idea as to how well the image has been exposed. And as they say, there is no substitute for experience, And I'm still learning.
 
Stick it on centre weighted and watch your blinkies - by far the easiest way to learn and how I teach all my newbies

Blinkies is THE tool for digital as it shows you what's blown. You then decide if it's ok or too much, if no blinkies fire you're underexposing so open up (which could mean another test exposure and exp lock or dialling-in some compensation)

By far the easiest and quickest way to success in my book

HTH

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Stick it on centre weighted and watch your blinkies - by far the easiest way to learn and how I teach all my newbies

Blinkies is THE tool for digital as it shows you what's blown. You then decide if it's ok or too much, if no blinkies fire you're underexposing so open up (which could mean another test exposure and exp lock or dialling-in some compensation)

By far the easiest and quickest way to success in my book

HTH

DD
Click to expand...

Very Interesting stuff DD - I've been trying to get rid of the blinkies entirely which is probably why I keep having dark and dull pics. Will follow your advice and see what I come up with!
 
Pippy_Neville said:
Very Interesting stuff DD - I've been trying to get rid of the blinkies entirely which is probably why I keep having dark and dull pics. Will follow your advice and see what I come up with!
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol:

The secret to digital is of course what the histogram shows

But in many cases (i.e. our white-room studio) the histogram shows you that you've blown areas that you don't care about anyway, so is useless

If you use your blinkies and a tiny bit is blown, but it's on a face, then leave it. If loads are blown, but it's in the sky and you're shooting a person, who cares! What is important is that your subject isn't blown and everything else is secondary to that

:thumbs:

DD
 
Blinkies can be recovered in RAW. The real secret is being able to look at the scene and work out what blinkies would be acceptable. You can push a histogram quite a bit to the right and get away with it :)
 
DiddyDave said:
Stick it on centre weighted
Click to expand...

Really? Why? I would have discounted that one completely and gone for either eval or spot and exp lock.

Centre weighted baffles me, as one of the first things you learn is the rule of thirds. So surely spot is more useful and you'd meter the bit that will be your foreground or subject, exp lock, then recompose?

Edit: John, glad you understand where i'm coming from here.
 
Interesting stuff. I've now set for centre weighted average... I'll see how I get on with it. Thanks. (Sorry Lee, jumping into your thread...)
 
68lbs said:
Really? Why? I would have discounted that one completely and gone for either eval or spot and exp lock.

Centre weighted baffles me, as one of the first things you learn is the rule of thirds. So surely spot is more useful and you'd meter the bit that will be your foreground or subject, exp lock, then recompose?

Edit: John, glad you understand where i'm coming from here.
Click to expand...


Perhaps a touch further to explain then...

CW - Point at and focus on your subject, exp lock and recompose; simple, quick and reliable

Matrix/Evaluative - great where the subject isn't any darker/lighter than the background, but in all other cases it's more likely to over/under expose your subject

Spot - is in most cases a waste of time really, as even if your subject is small in the frame Spot will only meter a part of the subject - so if it's a man in a suit, Spot could meter either the white shirt or the dark suit - neither would be right

CW is then taking an average reading of your subject rather than an average of your frame as Matricx/Eval does; Spot can be just too precise on a subject with more than 1 stop of dynamic range

HTH???

DD
 
Adding to the confusion...

My camera is permanently on partial metering :). I am aware of the area in the middle of the viewfinder being metered and use it much in the way mentioned above for CW average - but I know my average is only on the area I aimed at.

Think it is all down to what you are used to. some will swear by spot metering and some find matrix is all they need. more still probably have no idea what it is all about and just click and hope.

There are a number of topics that need a brief tutorial writing and this is another for the list!
 
I spot meter on something green equates to 18% grey, to get a good starting point then look at the overall scene, is it predominantly dark or light, or a good overall balance, then compensate accordingly.
 
you are not going back to basics using AV/TV particulaly if you don't know what metering to use.


68lbs said:
Ok, in a bid to improve the speed at which I take pictures, and to hopefully learn more, I am going back to basics as of tomorrow morning when I'm planning to shoot this month's comp pic.

So I'll only be using AV or TV! :gag: I'm also going to try to use the meter more to get the shot right first time, rather than taking educated guesses and using the histogram to correct and reshoot.

My question is simple... should I have the camera's metering set to evaluative, centre weighted, or partial (big spot). I think these are the 3 options.

I'm personally thinking that if I'm trying to speed things up, it needs to be evaluative with me using +ve/-ve exp comp depending on how I personally evaluate what's in the frame?

Am I right in thinking that if I set it to spot then I will have to meter for that bit, lock the exposure, then recompose - thus making the whole process just as slow as shooting manual?

Gawd, is it just me. I start to think I am making some forward progress and then suddenly find myself completely lacking and like I am back at the beginning?
Click to expand...
 
Surely the metering method depends on both the subject and the situation ?

And by "going back to basics" I would suggest using a suitable metering method and MANUAL only. You learn far more about exposure when using manual than anything else (IMHO).

I very rarely use anything other than manual now, unless I'm shooting very fast moving subjects, or I want a defined DoF.

Steve
 
FFS! :bang:

Are you lot pulling my plonker! ;)

Only yesterday I get a comment in another thread that I'm lacking active brain cells for shooting in manual all the time. That it's slow, and that I should be using AV/TV unless it's necessary to use manual.

I'm off out now, but will read all this again when I get back as it seems to me that there's a lot of contradictory information. And I'm thinking I should just stick with what works for me.

PS: Thank for the explanation Dave. Please don't stop trying to teach me stuff. I'm just struggling to work out what's what at the min as there seems to be a lot of people with different opinions on things.
 
Lee

The problem is there is no right way todo it and people do things different ways, you have to work out what is best for you and the given situation.

Can i suggest you set up a seen use manual keep the meter on the centre of the EV bar by adjusting the shutter speed only and take a photo using the 3 different types of metering to see what difference you get and how much you have to change the shutter speed to get the EV bar on the centre.

Hope that makes seance, the aim being that you can see the difference between them.
 
I'll echo what Ruth says. Work out what works for you. If you presented a scene to 100 TPer's you would quickly find 100 different ways of shooting it.

Different subjects work better with different settings in respect of Tv,Av or manual so without being there and seeing the shot as you do it's impossible to say "You should be shooting manual or Av" Try it both ways and see what works for you. Don't get too worked up about settings, experiment and see where it takes you. Get overly technical and I know I lose any artistic vision and I know which is more important to me.

For Dave. I find the one perfect application for spot metering is my whippet. She's 18% grey (honestly) so if I want the white stripe on her muzzle exposed correctly I need to spot meter it.

That's the kind of application that only experimentation will help in finding the best way (for me) to shoot her.

Hope that helps :)
 
AliB is right. There is no one correct way. You need to find what works for you and when, that I'm afraid is down to experience.

Can you shoot RAW. That has the advantage of collecting more data than a jpeg will do. It means that if you make a mistake it can often be rectified afterward. It also has one great advantage a learning aid. By looking at the image in a RAW converter you can adjust the exposure and see the effect. Most if not all will also tell you how much exposure compensation you have applied. The converters histogram is also a useful tool to evaluate the exposure of the subject. This way you can evaluate which is the best method for each subject type, and what exposure compensation you may need to dial in at source.

What you need to understand is how your camera meter reacts to certain subjects and if human intervention is required.I find not unusual to have +2/3 stop permanently dialed in on my cameras.

Try not to let the technicalities get in the way of enjoying your photography
 
All good points guys but the OP said...

in a bid to improve the speed at which I take pictures

In which case I stand by CW all day long as being easier/speedier and more likely to be right than M settings and reviewing/correcting every time

:thumbs:

AliB - love the idea of taking the dog as a metering aide :lol:

DD
 
:)

Okie doke... I'm back.

Dave - You're correct, it was my speed at taking pics that was being questioned. I think i've let myself be swayed by comments elsewhere though. My speed (or lack of) is not a problem at the moment so until it becomes a problem (when I shall try your methods) I will stick with with manual and if people think I am lacking braincells, then so be it.

Girls - You are right too. I am letting myself get bogged down with the technicalities and all these different opinions. I think, because I am looking for assistance from people better than me, that I am trying to take on board everything and I need to try it, and if it doesnt work, move on until I find what does.

Chappers - Yes, I shoot raw all the time. And I think I can produce some ok shots. Nothing staggering, but better than a snapshot (i hope). The thread came about because I shoot manual, and use the histogram to establish correct exposure. Not the speediest method. However, I havent found it holds me back shooting what I want to so far, so after reading all this I've decided (rightly or wrongly) that i'll stick with shooting this way until I need to change.

Hope anyone doesnt think i've asked for advice and then ignored you all? I havent. And I'm very grateful for any help, comments, pointers that people can offer.
 
However you shoot as long as you enjoy it that's the main thing
 
Not at all! :)

I was a little worried because I could almost taste your frustration. Relax, shoot things for fun. Anything, anytime you like. Stuff that just does not matter. every time you press that shutter you will learn something about the way your camera and lens behaves. That way you are building up your own ideas/data bank. It's that experience that will, in time, allow you to assess what is in front of you before you even pick the camera up.

I know I took several weeks of pointing a 1Ds at everything that moved and a lot that didn't to even start getting the hang of it. And that was moving from a 5D so not a huge leap. It just behaves differently and that has taken time for me to adjust.

Give it time and make it fun. Indoors, outdoors. Everything and anything. It all helps.
 
The trouble is that there is no 'One size fits all' different situations call for different methods.
 
AliB said:
Not at all! :)

I know I took several weeks of pointing a 1Ds at everything that moved and a lot that didn't to even start getting the hang of it. And that was moving from a 5D so not a huge leap. It just behaves differently and that has taken time for me to adjust.

.
Click to expand...

I'm glad it's not just me that found the 1Ds metering different from the 5D. Strange how 2 cameras from the same manufacturer , with similar pedigrees could respond so differently.

As always in this life you live and learn, and ecperience sometimes makes the learning easier
 
What an awesome topic.
This is an area I've been thinking about for a while, so I'm learning loads from it.

:clap: Lee for starting a great topic.



:popcorn:
 
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