Article in Amateur Photographer

[sunnybears]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has seen the article in the latest Amateur Photographer (31 Aug I think) about the guy who only takes photos of birds and only used auto on his camera? I was a little surprised as every you tube video or tutorial you read talks about getting off auto and you aren't a proper photographer unless you are on manual. He is publishing a book of his work.

Personally I use both. If I think I am about to lose a shot I'll shove on auto to get at least one shot. In my photography class the teacher does say don't lose the shot because you aren't quick at setting up manual yet so auto is OK sometimes.

I suppose it makes me feel a little better as well as I am learning that you can use auto and it isn't always a bad word.

What are folks thoughts?

 

[Box Brownie]

None too sure about the article.................have you a link to a publicly viewable version?

Why, well 'Auto' covers a lot of options other than 'Manual' i.e. Av, Tv & P mode are all auto in some ways, so more info is a good thing.

Having said that don't get hung up on what settings you are using, use the most appropriate for the subject and circumstances ~ if you 'get the bird', great BUT understanding the choices you are making & how they influence the end result is the key thing!

 

[sunnybears]

I read it on a digital copy of the magazine so no link, sorry.

I am open to all combos of settings if it gets me a good shot, I was just surprised to see an article that goes against the grain of most.

 

[Box Brownie]

I read it on a digital copy of the magazine so no link, sorry.

I am open to all combos of settings if it gets me a good shot, I was just surprised to see an article that goes against the grain of most.

Ah! digital subscription.

Using (full) Auto is of course allowing the camera to be almost 100% in control.................that is why I mentioned about understanding the reasons why to use it and in what way it can limit the end results? So the article may not be so much 'going against the grain' if the author has covered the thinking & decision making he used???

Does the AP digital version allow you to copy & paste the relevant section/paragraph re: Auto used?

 

[sunnybears]

I have tried a screengrab. I can access a few magazines online via my library.

 

[Suvv]

Having come from 35mm film SLRs without built in meters, in about 1970!, I find the Auto settings great, even full Auto has its place.
As Phil V said Quote: The 2 most important decisions in your picture taking are 'where to stand' and 'when to press the shutter',
Full Auto has its limitations but if you do not exceed them then it is not a problem.
To get the best from your gear you need to know what each setting does in as much detail as possible, learn that off by heart and then use whatever is appropriate.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

As Phil V said Quote: The 2 most important decisions in your picture taking are 'where to stand' and 'when to press the shutter',

I think at the end of the day it is this. I can get a boring shot of a pigeon using the best manual settings. I doubt it would amount to much. Subject and locations make a big difference as I have demonstrated myself with my landscapes, and as the gear improves auto is no longer such a toxic solution. You may be missing out on a little extra detail or SNR but that is about it.

 

[sunnybears]

I am interested in improving my landscapes. I am primarily a wildlife fan but some of the skies in Scotland can be impressive or permanently grey for a week .

 

[lindsay]

The screen grab shows that he uses autofocus and Auto-ISO - nothing about shutter speed or aperture, which implies to me that he most likely uses Shutter priority mode, ie sets a fast speed, auto ISO and lets the camera decide the aperture; or maybe sets an aperture and shutter speed manually, and lets the camera decide ISO, which is perfectly reasonable. Others may have a view...

 

[Box Brownie]

The screen grab shows that he uses autofocus and Auto-ISO - nothing about shutter speed or aperture, which implies to me that he most likely uses Shutter priority mode, ie sets a fast speed, auto ISO and lets the camera decide the aperture; or maybe sets an aperture and shutter speed manually, and lets the camera decide ISO, which is perfectly reasonable. Others may have a view...

Yes, without the context re: Av or Tv and what that page grab says of two aspects of his settings setup (AF not being entirely relevant in the context of Auto set on the camera) I still wonder exactly what the article says of his settings??? On the face of it "Auto" (green square?) it is not!

 

[woof woof]

Once when I was out taking pictures with a mirrorless camera and a manual film era lens a guy came up to chat with me and see what I was up to. He was into aviation and as a byproduct was also an amateur photographer, he only took pictures of aeroplanes and only used auto. Talking to him it became obvious that he had no understanding of apertures or depth of field. And why should he? Auto got the job done for him.

 

[ancient_mariner]

It's only worth using manual when one of the auto modes won't give you what you want.

 

[RedRobin]

I only shoot full Manual-mode but what this goes to prove is that to take 'good' photos it is much more important to have the eye and to recognise when to capture the moment. The settings are just fine tuning and amount to diddly-squat if the photograph doesn't evoke any emotion. So why shouldn't shooting on Auto-mode work?

 

[woof woof]

I only shoot full Manual-mode but what this goes to prove is that to take 'good' photos it is much more important to have the eye and to recognise when to capture the moment. The settings are just fine tuning and amount to diddly-squat if the photograph doesn't evoke any emotion. So why shouldn't shooting on Auto-mode work?

When I had Canon DSLR's reasons I had not to use Auto included that in Auto the camera only allowed JPEG and often chose settings that I wouldn't. For example it seemed to prefer ISO 400 to any other even when a lower or even a higher one would have been appropriate. I don't know if more modern cameras do those things.

 

[Retune]

As always, the most important things are what you point the camera at, and when you press the button. And of course the thinking and preparation that got you to that place at that time.

There's not much virtue in shooting in manual if all you do is dial in the settings that the camera's computer is telling you to use, and would have used itself in auto mode. Full manual is perhaps most useful in tricky situations when you think the camera's meter has got it wrong (which is particularly obvious when using an EVF or LCD). The rest of the time, one of the semi-auto modes is often handier. Traditionally, that would mean aperture priority when you want to control depth of field, or shutter priority when you want to freeze the action (or blur it). Today, a shiftable program mode is often more flexible than either. Alternatively, with modern cameras that have little noise over a wide ISO range, manually setting both aperture and shutter speed and letting auto ISO take up the slack lets you take control of two key parameters without worrying about over or under exposure (provided you trust the meter and use sensible settings that don't force the camera to use an extreme ISO).

 

[sk66]

The vast majority of professionals that I know work in aperture priority (A/AV) with auto ISO for the majority of wildlife/action photography; sometimes switching to manual with auto ISO (to force a slow SS), or even full manual just because it's easier. I'm usually in aperture priority with auto ISO even when it's actually more difficult/unnecessary, just because I am so used to it.

I find that those who advocate "full manual only" are either old farts like myself who never learned to really get along with automation/digital technology (or how it works), or it is a newbie who just finally figured out how to use full manual themselves.

 

[RedRobin]

As always, the most important things are what you point the camera at, and when you press the button. And of course the thinking and preparation that got you to that place at that time.

There's not much virtue in shooting in manual if all you do is dial in the settings that the camera's computer is telling you to use, and would have used itself in auto mode. Full manual is perhaps most useful in tricky situations when you think the camera's meter has got it wrong (which is particularly obvious when using an EVF or LCD). The rest of the time, one of the semi-auto modes is often handier. Traditionally, that would mean aperture priority when you want to control depth of field, or shutter priority when you want to freeze the action (or blur it). Today, a shiftable program mode is often more flexible than either. Alternatively, with modern cameras that have little noise over a wide ISO range, manually setting both aperture and shutter speed and letting auto ISO take up the slack lets you take control of two key parameters without worrying about over or under exposure (provided you trust the meter and use sensible settings that don't force the camera to use an extreme ISO).

.... Hmm, perhaps I misunderstand you but full Manual-mode especially when keeping an eye on the histogram allows you to control depth of field and shutter speed at the same time and to very quickly alter that balance and therefore its properties. So why limit yourself by selecting either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority when you can adjust either without changing mode?

I used to shoot aperture priority and occasional shutter priority but mirrorless technology has helped make that unnecessary.

I tend to decide ISO before a session but can easily change the setting on the fly without moving my eye from the viewfinder. I shoot Olympus E-M1X and used to shoot Canon D-SLR and mirrorless.

 

[ancient_mariner]

So why limit yourself by selecting either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority when you can adjust either without changing mode?

It's likely down to shooting style - if you've plenty of time and like to set up the shot then full manual is perfectly good.

But if you want to control aperture and you know the camera will choose roughly the same shutter speed that you'd have selected anyway then aperture priority will give you the same results without you having to concentrate on that aspect. And if you want to freeze or blur the action with a specific shutter speed and know that the camera will select the same aperture that you'd have chosen anyway then there's no difference in the final image. If the settings that you or the camera select would be the same (and most of the time that will be true) then there's no advantage to choosing manual mode. But using a semi-auto mode will allow you to concentrate on other things like composition, posing, best place to put focus etc.

For *me* the time to use manual is when any auto mode might be fooled, so shooting a subject moving across a background with either variable or strongly contrasting lighting (i.e. a bird in flight).

 

[Brazo]

I see full manual as setting the correct aperture and shutter speed for the job but letting auto iso take up the slack, with the caveat that in tricky lighting situations I need to adjust as appropriate. After all like any person reading this post I don’t have a built in light meter in my eyes and I’m not faffing around with the sunny 16 rule either

 

[RedRobin]

I see full manual as setting the correct aperture and shutter speed for the job but letting auto iso take up the slack, with the caveat that in tricky lighting situations I need to adjust as appropriate. After all like any person reading this post I don’t have a built in light meter in my eyes and I’m not faffing around with the sunny 16 rule either

.... I assume from your comment (highlit in bold) that you are not shooting with a mirrorless camera via the EVF which is sufficiently WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) plus you can select the option to view the histogram in the EVF as well. What the heck is "the sunny 16 rule"? There aren't any rules - You learn by tactile feel and experience (including making mistakes).

It's likely down to shooting style - if you've plenty of time and like to set up the shot then full manual is perfectly good.

.... With wildlife and sports action there is rarely plenty of time. Shooting nearly every day soon trains you to be able to naturally shoot fully manual providing your camera has good enough ergonomics to suit you. The fingers on your right hand control various camera body settings such as aperture and shutter simultaneously, and the left hand takes care of any lens adjustments.

I guess we each evolve our own preferred way of shooting based on which camera we are using. I seem to be the only one here so far who by default shoots fully manual - I haven't felt the need to shoot in the other modes for many months, probably this year and I shoot 300-500 images every week.

But as I said earlier, it doesn't matter what mode you shoot in if it gives you the result you want.

 

[sk66]

So why limit yourself by selecting either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority when you can adjust either without changing mode?

Regardless of the mode of operation you can change/adjust either... you just have to know what control you have and how that will affect the settings. The only times I find manual (w/ auto ISO) better is when I need to force a slower SS (e.g. panning). And the only time I find full manual to be any better is when I'm in control of the lighting (e.g it's not changing).

I prefer that the camera automatically makes the changes to the settings that I would make manually... it is much quicker than I am.

 

[LCPete]

Agree for wildlife and nature anyway the camera settings are just the last stage in getting the shot you want
I’m not the quickest person so I decide in advance the depth of field I want and work from that but basically just use AV aperture mode and adjust the iso to get the shutter speed needed so I use my camera in auto mode and that’s perfect for what I do

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

.... Hmm, perhaps I misunderstand you but full Manual-mode especially when keeping an eye on the histogram allows you to control depth of field and shutter speed at the same time and to very quickly alter that balance and therefore its properties. So why limit yourself by selecting either Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority when you can adjust either without changing mode?

Because typically your composition for a shot will depend on Aperture, if it's a specific depth of field that you want, or shutter speed, if you want to include some motion blur, are panning etc etc.

But rarely depend on both.

For weddings, I'll shoot 90% of the day in Aperture Priority, Auto ISO, min shutter speed of 1/250th because then I know it'll freeze motion of people walking, and I can compose based on DOF and just concentrate on framing and capturing the moments. The 10% will either be tricky lighting that'll fool the camera, or with flash, which I always shoot in manual with.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

I see full manual as setting the correct aperture and shutter speed for the job but letting auto iso take up the slack, with the caveat that in tricky lighting situations I need to adjust as appropriate. After all like any person reading this post I don’t have a built in light meter in my eyes and I’m not faffing around with the sunny 16 rule either

Surely Manual mode with Auto Iso isn't full manual though?

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has seen the article in the latest Amateur Photographer (31 Aug I think) about the guy who only takes photos of birds and only used auto on his camera? I was a little surprised as every you tube video or tutorial you read talks about getting off auto and you aren't a proper photographer unless you are on manual. He is publishing a book of his work.

Personally I use both. If I think I am about to lose a shot I'll shove on auto to get at least one shot. In my photography class the teacher does say don't lose the shot because you aren't quick at setting up manual yet so auto is OK sometimes.

I suppose it makes me feel a little better as well as I am learning that you can use auto and it isn't always a bad word.

What are folks thoughts?

I think learning manual is very important. Then understanding that it's pointless in 90% of situations is more important, unless you're shooting with flash.

Those that say you're not in control of the image when using a semi-auto mode, clearly don't understand how the semi-auto modes work, or have never used the exposure compensation settings. And if you're just using the in-built camera lightmeter then Manual is just doing what Aperture or Shutter priority will do, only much slower than the camera can do it for you.

 

[Brazo]

.... I assume from your comment (highlit in bold) that you are not shooting with a mirrorless camera via the EVF which is sufficiently WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) plus you can select the option to view the histogram in the EVF as well. What the heck is "the sunny 16 rule"? There aren't any rules - You learn by tactile feel and experience (including making mistakes).

Yes an ovf. I was being somewhat flippant with the Sunny 16 rule but if you’ve never heard of it you can learn about it here: https://www.slrlounge.com/photography-essentials-the-sunny-16-rule/

 

[Brazo]

Surely Manual mode with Auto Iso isn't full manual though?

It’s probably going to depend on how one qualifies ‘manual’ , yes your right but in the same way using live view or a histogram isn’t either as the camera is doing a lot for you.

It’s probably an argument for the purists, get a an old Zenit SLR and that will teach you what manual actually is but we have come a long way since then and imo manual has evolved and we can rely on camera trickery like histograms.

As long as the aperture and shutter speed is correct for the image it matters not what they are if the exposure is correct so why not let the camera do the hard bit.

 

[RedRobin]

The problem with setting ISO to Auto is that ISO levels are more critical (limited unless you want noisiness) on m4/3 size sensors and Auto ISO even when you set the high and low threshold parameters cannot be trusted.

I simply don't understand any Manual-mode disadvantage in having your thumb on one control wheel set for Aperture (or Shutter Speed as you prefer) and your forefinger on the other control wheel for Shutter Speed (or Aperture as you prefer) - You can leave either as set for a whole session but can change on the fly far quicker than by using the mode dial. The control wheels are on Canon and E-M1X camera bodies.

But as already said, each of use has our own preferences which we feel most comfortable with. There is no right or wrong way. But you need to have the eye and there are plenty of photographers who don't and consequently rely on rigid rules.

 

[RedRobin]

Yes an ovf. I was being somewhat flippant with the Sunny 16 rule but if you’ve never heard of it you can learn about it here: https://www.slrlounge.com/photography-essentials-the-sunny-16-rule/

.... Bloody hell! This is exactly the kind of scientific mind-f*** which over complicates the art of photography and encourages formulaic results. NOT for me! But thanks for the link - I won't be bookmarking it but I appreciate and thank you for posting it.

 

[sk66]

I simply don't understand any Manual-mode disadvantage in having your thumb on one control wheel set for Aperture (or Shutter Speed as you prefer) and your forefinger on the other control wheel for Shutter Speed (or Aperture as you prefer)...

Because ISO is always the setting I am willing to compromise on first; and I have not seen a camera that allows assigning ISO directly to a dial so that it is immediately accessible while in manual.

 

[sunnybears]

This grew arms and and legs. It's interesting how many different ways we all approach pressing that shutter button. I read about auto-iso in manual mode recently somewhere and have tried it out. It definitely lightens up the few test shots I took in my gloomy living room but I am wary of just how high it shot and the noise it introduced. Outside on a bright day I would hope the ISO wouldn't shoot up so quickly but it's worth keeping an eye on. I'm not sold on it just yet.

 

[TCR4x4]

Because ISO is always the setting I am willing to compromise on first; and I have not seen a camera that allows assigning ISO directly to a dial so that it is immediately accessible while in manual.

Most higher end Fuji bodies have iso dials on the top.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Because ISO is always the setting I am willing to compromise on first; and I have not seen a camera that allows assigning ISO directly to a dial so that it is immediately accessible while in manual.

It's on the rear wheel on the Sony A7 series.

 

[sk66]

It's on the rear wheel on the Sony A7 series.

When in full manual?

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

When in full manual?

You can set it up to be.

Alternatively when in manual and auto iso the exposure compensation wheel becomes your ISO wheel

 

[RedRobin]

Because ISO is always the setting I am willing to compromise on first; and I have not seen a camera that allows assigning ISO directly to a dial so that it is immediately accessible while in manual.

..... On the Olympus E-M1X, by default there is an ISO button on the top plate very conveniently placed close to the Front Dial so that it is easy in Manual-mode to change/select an ISO setting with that Front Dial while remaining in the viewfinder on the target and also whilst seeing the histogram if desired. It's an adjacent 2-finger operation and so is easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

To help get your finger on the desired button, each of the top 3 buttons are physically brailled to differentiate them blind.

Furthermore, I think but would have to check, other buttons can be assigned to ISO and the ISO button can definitely be assigned to other functions.

Like you, ISO is also my first setting I will compromise although that does depend on the target subject as the image stabilisation on the Olympus Pro system is a market leader and allows some surprisingly looow shutter speeds.

Due to the m4/3 smaller sensor the Depth of Fields are slightly deeper than on full-frame cameras and this can also be an advantage but of course it depends on the image you want to achieve.

Time to go mirrorless, Steven?

 

[Phil V]

I see full manual as setting the correct aperture and shutter speed for the job but letting auto iso take up the slack

But that's not full manual.

 

[Brazo]

But that's not full manual.

I said that’s how ‘I’ see it and then caveated It Phil.

 

[Phil V]

I said that’s how ‘I’ see it and then caveated It Phil.

But that’s like saying I see the moon as being made of cheese.
You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion, and so am I. And my point isn’t only my opinion, it’s that you’re factually, demonstrably wrong.

 

[sk66]

Time to go mirrorless, Steven?

Not yet for me...
On Nikons ISO is a two finger operation, which means my finger isn't on the shutter release. In aperture priority with auto ISO I have "easy EC" enabled which makes the free dial EC, which is controlling ISO first (some Nikons have "easy ISO" instead). Those options make ISO adjustments one finger (thumbwheel). But even that is not fast/intuitive enough to compensate for broken clouds or a subject moving in/out of shadows, at least not for me; but auto modes are (auto ISO).

The way I see it is that you pay a lot of money for a camera with some very impressive technology/capabilities, and it makes the most sense to leverage that to your advantage when you can... I would never revert to full time manual focus either; but I do use manual focus sometimes.