Anyone tried Zero in camera sharpening?

bigrob

bigrob

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After my nightmare on Sunday when my WB was all over the place I decided I'd re-read the manual & Canon optimization PDFs. I have since changed some of my settings.

On to a different subject then that is nothing to do with the WB.

I process all my images when I get home (no wiring pitch side).

Anyway in the Optimization PDF it says
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For JPEG shooters: Picture Style Neutral or Standard > Sharpness level 2 or 3
(keeping it at level 2 will minimize the effect of any noise at ISO 1600 or above) - I checked mine and it was on 4.
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It then goes on to say
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Suggested starting points for Unsharp Mask sharpening in the computer
For shooters who anticipate making further sharpening adjustments in Adobe Photoshop™ or similar software programs,
always bear in mind that ideal sharpening settings will be very much dependent upon subject matter, lighting, ISO setting used,
and of course the intended type and size of final output. As a typical, initial starting point for sharpening using Photoshop’s Unsharp
Mask command, you might want to consider the following :
High ISO images (no initial in-camera sharpening) Low ISO images (no initial in-camera sharpening)
Amount — 250% Amount — 250%
Radius — 0.3 pixels Radius — 0.3 pixels
Threshold — 4 levels Threshold — 1 level
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So I wondered if there would be any advantage insetting the Standard profile to 0 sharpening & then do all the sharpening in Lightroom bearing in mind I only shoot in Jpg?
 
Shoot RAW then you can easily sort out any WB issues, you dont need any in camera sharpening settings, use High Pass sharpening as your last post processing action
Dave
 
I don't shoot RAW for sports and didn't think many people did.
 
alot of sports togs that have time constrant dont shot raw, but if you have time and dont mind editing them then raw is the best way.
personally i only shot raw when doing weddings and in the studio, when i shot jpeg i always up the sharpness slightly as jpegs on all cams are different and nikon dont apply alot of sharpening in jpeg, i always up the saturation +1 and contrast +1.
 
Hopefully I can make it to my son's rugby game tomorrow. If so I may give it a go in RAW.

I'd still like to see some sports photographers comment on whether they have tried 0 in camera sharpening though.
 
bigrob said:
Hopefully I can make it to my son's rugby game tomorrow. If so I may give it a go in RAW.
Click to expand...

Or shoot Raw+jpeg.

The Unsharp Mask has three controls:
Amount -
The Amount setting controls the intensity of the sharpening applied. The higher the percentage (up to 500%) the greater the sharpening effect will be. The correct amount to apply will vary depending on the image. Generally speaking you should aim for somewhere between 50 and 150% (experience will help you make the right judgement on screen as to what the correct amount to use should be).​
Radius -
The Radius and Threshold settings affect the distribution of the sharpening effect. The Radius setting how many pixels out from the edge the sharpening will affect and the ideal setting will depend on the image. Try a Radius of between 0.5 and 1 as a good starting point, moving up to 4 in extreme situations.​
Threshold -
The Threshold setting works the opposite way, the lower the number the more intense the sharpening effect. Threshold determines how different a pixel must be from the surrounding area before it’s considered an edge pixel and sharpened by the filter. A pretty safe range for the Threshold setting is anywhere from 3 to around 20 (3 being the most intense, 20 being much more subtle). If you really need to increase the intensity of your sharpening, you can lower the Threshold to 0, but watch out for unwanted noise or pixilation.​

Here are some rough guides to sharpening different sorts of images:
All-purpose Sharpening -
These settings are good for any image and are subtle enough that you could apply them twice if necessary (Amount 85%, Radius 1, Threshold 4).​
Moderate Sharpening -
These settings work well when sharpening photos of home interiors and exteriors as well as landscapes (Amount 225%, Radius 0.5, Threshold 0).​
Maximum Sharpening -
Only use these settings (Amount 65%, Radius 4, Threshold 3) when the photo either is visibly slightly out-of-focus or the photo contains lots of well-defined edges (buildings, coins, cars, machinery…)
Sharpening Portraits - Use when you are sharpening a close-up portrait (Amount 75%, Radius 2, Threshold 3) these settings also apply to other sorts of subtle sharpening.​
Web Sharpening -
The sort of sharpening you would need to do when you have to reduce the resolution of an image from say 300ppi to 72ppi for the Web (Amount 400%, Radius 0.3, Threshold 0), if the effect seems too intense, reduce the Amount to 200%. These settings can also be used to rescue, to some extent, a slightly out-of-focus photo from being deleted, although it will add some noise.​
 
RAW & JPG maybe a problem when I hold the shutter down for a player going on a run with the ball.
 
jpeg and raw you can shoot 10 before the buffer is full, compared to 56 jpegs.
give it a try.
and the lower the sharpening in camera the less noise it brings out then you can do selective sharpening, but the noise fom adding sharpening changes from camera to camera depennding on how good the iso control is.
 
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For the Mk III it is supposed to be more than that. I should give it a go and see how I get on.

Burst Depth: about 110 JPG (only about 30 raw, or 22 raw + JPG).
 
I really don't see the problem with shooting in Jpeg. You can alter almost everything, including WB, that you can with RAW and the primary issue isn't so much the buffer but the speed of review time and volume of shots that you can fit on one CF card.
 
Thanks Mark.

It seems so far that no-one has tried shooting Jpg with no sharpening and done all the sharpening in post processing & compared that to re-sharpening an already sharpened in-camera image.
 
Mine's set to 3 and then a standard 40,0.8,35 applied in LR before individual adjustment.

I wouldn't run it at zero because I want the out of camera file to be close to finished before PP'ing. LR is for tweeking a Jpeg file, remember, not for fully rendering it!
 
DemiLion said:
Mine's set to 3 and then a standard 40,0.8,35 applied in LR before individual adjustment.
Click to expand...

I presume you have arrived at those figures from experience? Do you do that sharpening on import?

Do you use a MK IV? If so were the settings the same for your MK III?

To satisfy my own curiosity I'd be interested in trying 0, 2 and 3 for in camera and seeing if I can see any difference.
 
Unbelievable that people are suggesting you take bad pictures but take them in RAW and fix later...

why not simply set white balance in the camera and take decent pictures? :)
 
DemiLion said:
I really don't see the problem with shooting in Jpeg. You can alter almost everything, including WB, that you can with RAW and the primary issue isn't so much the buffer but the speed of review time and volume of shots that you can fit on one CF card.
Click to expand...

I did 14 bouts of boxing on sat night.. over 100 pics per bout... glad i didnt shoot them in raw haha :) first test pictures where orange .. i simply used the camera setting to set the white balance and off i went.. far better than shotting one and a half thousand pics in raw then trying to fix later:)
 
Forget the RAW bit Tony.

Have you ever tried the 0 in camera sharpening and doing it all PP?

It's only out of curiosity.
 
KIPAX said:
i simply used the camera setting to set the white balance and off i went.. far better than shotting one and a half thousand pics in raw then trying to fix later:)
Click to expand...

Sorry do you mean you set a custom WB?

If so do you do the same for outside?
 
bigrob said:
Forget the RAW bit Tony.

Have you ever tried the 0 in camera sharpening and doing it all PP?

It's only out of curiosity.
Click to expand...

nagh... never seen the point to be honest.. I am with DemiLion on this one :)
 
Ok thanks.
 
bigrob said:
Sorry do you mean you set a custom WB?

If so do you do the same for outside?
Click to expand...

No not a custom WB (as in cusome pre set i presume you mean?).. set the WB for the enviroment your in.. manual WB its dead easy ... a million times easier than shooting everyhting wrong in raw :)

and no.. never come accross a situation outdoors that auto WB didnt sort.. indoors sports clubs and the like when everyhting is orange...
 
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I THINK custom and manual are the same thing here. i.e. shooting a white card?
 
And yes I have very little patience afterwards. With the cameras as they are now - I should be able to get a decent image OOC.
 
PMSL
 
bigrob said:
I THINK custom and manual are the same thing here. i.e. shooting a white card?
Click to expand...

Custom WB is when you shoot a grey card/ice/any neutral object and set the WB from that.

Manual is when you dial in the Kelvin temperature yourself.
 
Ah I see - thanks.
 
DemiLion said:
Custom WB is when you shoot a grey card/ice/any neutral object and set the WB from that.

Manual is when you dial in the Kelvin temperature yourself.
Click to expand...

I presumed the way it was asked he meant a custom one from the list..

personaly i find somehting white in the room and take a picture to set as WB .. I am not in a studio taking a pic of a model.. I dont need it to be picture perfect.. just as near as damm it :)

I honestly dont understand why people think shooting a load of rubbish pics in raw then fixing later is the answer... winds me up that one :)
 
KIPAX said:
I honestly dont understand why people think shooting a load of rubbish pics in raw then fixing later is the answer... winds me up that one :)
Click to expand...

It's a PJ wedding photographer thing :naughty:

(n.b. private joke)
 
KIPAX said:
I presumed the way it was asked he meant a custom one from the list..

personaly i find somehting white in the room and take a picture to set as WB .. I am not in a studio taking a pic of a model.. I dont need it to be picture perfect.. just as near as damm it :)

I honestly dont understand why people think shooting a load of rubbish pics in raw then fixing later is the answer... winds me up that one :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't having a dig, just explaining the difference to Rob!

We both know what you meant! :)
 
I recently purchased a Lastolite ezybalane from a guy on here which I will take with me on any indoor shoots, its small collapsable and easily fits in the bag, before that I had a grey/white card which was used and before that, I used a piece of A4 paper..... I shoot RAW + JPG at weddings and thats the only time. All sport is JPG..

Standard settings on the MKiv..I have experimented with increasing colour,contrast and Sharpening but I find that the Standard Picture Style to be fine.... Ocassionally using Landscape as it enhances the Blues and Greens.
 
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I think the majority of pro/semi pros using pro equipment will use some in camera sharpening quite simply because in Canons case they stuck an anti aliasing filter in their 1 series cameras from the MKII onwards as did Nikon with the D3 onwards, i remember the horrible effect it had with the Canon MKII and its part of the reason the introduced the MKIIN as they reduced the strength of the filter.

Read somewhere Canon are introducing 2 variants of the 1dx and Nikon likewise with the D4/D800

If anyone remembers the Canon 1D MKI they will know how sharp they were straight from the camera with no in cam settings applied.
 
bigrob said:
It's a PJ wedding photographer thing :naughty:

(n.b. private joke)
Click to expand...

Steady on

For weddings I shoot RAW

When I choose shoot JPEG, I use a expodisk, and custom white balance on the fly

I have the philosophy that I want the shot right in camera, but when shooting JPEG, I don't like my camera to "over sharpen" as "once it is done it is done" So I always set the camera to have a very light touch with JPEG's

If I need a saturation boost, or extra sharpening, it only takes a second or two in lightroom. If the camera has screwed up the saturation/sharpening then I am playing catch up in PP, and i don't like that, and the shot just gets worse and worse. For this reason, I mainly shoot RAW

If I am in a situation where I know the next 1000 shots will all need the same settings, I often shoot it in JPEG, check it on the laptop & fine tune

The issue with in-camera settings is the camera screens often dont give you enough info to make a great judgement
 
Richard King said:
Steady on

For weddings I shoot RAW

When I choose shoot JPEG, I use a expodisk, and custom white balance on the fly

I have the philosophy that I want the shot right in camera, but when shooting JPEG, I don't like my camera to "over sharpen" as "once it is done it is done" So I always set the camera to have a very light touch with JPEG's

If I need a saturation boost, or extra sharpening, it only takes a second or two in lightroom. If the camera has screwed up the saturation/sharpening then I am playing catch up in PP, and i don't like that, and the shot just gets worse and worse. For this reason, I mainly shoot RAW

If I am in a situation where I know the next 1000 shots will all need the same settings, I often shoot it in JPEG, check it on the laptop & fine tune

The issue with in-camera settings is the camera screens often dont give you enough info to make a great judgement
Click to expand...
Trouble is there aint that many Rugby players running round in big fluffy white dresses, and those that do, you really dont wanna get an after match shower with them. :lol:
 
Ok chaps - I'll pop a note in the original thread about the WB from today's game. No probs to report thank goodness.

Now on to the sharpening & also noise reduction.

I have started a new thread in Post Processing and Image Editing to ask about techniques.

See here http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=4146888#post4146888

If anyone has time can they look & the other question I want to ask then is, do they look abnormally noisy and would you expect them to be sharper SSOC?

Standard profile use with Sharpening at 3 and everything else at 0.

If you think they should be sharper then I wonder what I should be working on technique wise or could it be the lens and or camera combo?
 
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