Another "first wedding shoot" thread...

phinix

phinix

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I'll be shooting a wedding in August and just wanted to ask you for advice.
I'm not a photographer, it's only my hobby, never done weddings before. I was asked to shoot at wedding, they are on the budget so didn't want to get a pro.
I just bought Oly E-M10 and all I have now is Pana 20mm/1.7
I'm going to order Oly 45mm 1.8, not only for that wedding, I wanted to have that lens for nice portraits, but now when this wedding is coming up it's good reason for getting one:)

Wanted to ask if this combo should be enough? I guess 20mm will stay on for most of the time, then 45mm would be useful in church when I will have to stay a bit further.
E-M10 is x2 so I'm guessing 45mm should be enough to keep myself in a distance?

I don't have extra flash, not sure if I would need one. I don't worry about the venue, it will be outside, very sunny day etc. Some of the moments might be in hotel or bride's home, but 20mm 1.7 should handle that fine - based on my photos I made there in the past (apart of main venue which I don't know yet)

Would I need a tripod for anything? I'm asking cause I don't have a clue what kind of photos I may need to take. From what I'm thinking I could do all from hand, but I may be mistaken.

Would this kit be enough for some "amateur" shooting? :)
 
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Without being rude have you set a level of expectation for your friends of what you can deliver? I do think the kit sounds like the least of your worries here
 
Can't comment on the kit because I'm not familiar with it, but you won't need a tripod. It's a wedding, not a photoshoot :)

When you say it'll be outside, do you mean an outdoor ceremony? If so, and if it's actually very sunny, one challenge is going to be harsh shadows ...

+ what bfd said.
 
boyfalldown said:
Without being rude have you set a level of expectation for your friends of what you can deliver? I do think the kit sounds like the least of your worries here
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Well, I spoke with them and they are fine with me doing it:) They saw my photos I made in the past at family events and they liked it, so they not fussed too much about the result. What I mean is they simply want a nice simple photos, nothing "too pro", I told them not to expect super high quality photos perfectly taken at each moment - I will simply do my best and capture as much as I can. They are happy with that and I'm happy to do this for my first time:)
 
it would be interesting to know if they say that afterwards ;). Obviously they're your friends and you know them well, and I hope I'm talking out of my bum here, but very often after the day your friends will turn out to have expectations of you after all.

I'm not familiar with the Oly, but the 45 sounds like a good investment. However only send the money if you would have spent it anyway. Someone very well meaning will point out you should have a second body, but this is your friends for free. Don't spend extra cash you wouldn't have anyway
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Can't comment on the kit because I'm not familiar with it, but you won't need a tripod. It's a wedding, not a photoshoot :)

When you say it'll be outside, do you mean an outdoor ceremony? If so, and if it's actually very sunny, one challenge is going to be harsh shadows ...

+ what bfd said.
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Yes, outdoor. Shadows are one of the things I'm worried, yes. It might be very hot and sunny, so I'll have to think quickly about positions etc to minimize those shadows.
 
boyfalldown said:
it would be interesting to know if they say that afterwards ;). Obviously they're your friends and you know them well, and I hope I'm talking out of my bum here, but very often after the day your friends will turn out to have expectations of you after all.

I'm not familiar with the Oly, but the 45 sounds like a good investment. However only send the money if you would have spent it anyway. Someone very well meaning will point out you should have a second body, but this is your friends for free. Don't spend extra cash you wouldn't have anyway
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I know what you mean. This is family so it's even worse! ;)
I said to them not to expect miracles and if anything happens do not expect me to have backup equipment. If my camera goes tits up, there won't be photos from the wedding, so they are fine with this.. at least for now;)

45mm is my own investment, so it's not like thing I'm buying just because I'm doing this wedding, no worries.
 
phinix said:
I know what you mean. This is family so it's even worse! ;)
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I always find the best excuse is ;"I'd like to enjoy the day with you, get drunk & try and pull a bridesmaid*, so I'd rather not do the photography."

*Don't do this if your wife/girlfriend is there
 
boyfalldown said:
I always find the best excuse is ;"I'd like to enjoy the day with you, get drunk & try and pull a bridesmaid*, so I'd rather not do the photography."

*Don't do this if your wife/girlfriend is there
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Ha!:) I can pull a bridesmaid - my wife will be one:)
 
OK, so it's outdoor. Is this an ordinary "outdoor" civil ceremony in a gazebo type thing at a "wedding venue", or is it outdoors in the sense that when the couple look up, they will see the sky?

BTW, what's the crop factor of an E-M10 i.e what's a 20mm lens on it equivalent to on a ff camera?
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
OK, so it's outdoor. Is this an ordinary "outdoor" civil ceremony in a gazebo type thing at a "wedding venue", or is it outdoors in the sense that when the couple look up, they will see the sky?

BTW, what's the crop factor of an E-M10 i.e what's a 20mm lens on it equivalent to on a ff camera?
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clear sky kinda thing:)
Main building is a school or something (don't know the place yet) but 60% of the time all will be sitting outside under the sky.

It's 2x ratio, so 20 will be 40mm.... I used it as my main prime and never felt disappointed, indoor/outdoor.
45mm would be 90mm so I'm guessing would be fine for church action...

So it's like FF 40 and 90mm combo - should be fine?
 
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Ah, so it's not an outdoor wedding - it's a church wedding followed by an outdoor reception. In that case I wouldn't worry in the slightest about the kit you're using. I'd just make sure that (a) you have enough card capacity to take lots of snaps and (b) you get those cards home, downloaded and backed up safely.
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Ah, so it's not an outdoor wedding - it's a church wedding followed by an outdoor reception. In that case I wouldn't worry in the slightest about the kit you're using. I'd just make sure that (a) you have enough card capacity to take lots of snaps and (b) you get those cards home, downloaded and backed up safely.
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Precisely..:)
 
UPDATE: I've seen that church (on photos).. it's a dark one.
I'm wondering if I should get a external flash.. Never worked with one, so would need something simple.. and cheap. I would keep it afterwards for myself, but wouldn't spend lots of money for full pro flash...

For m43 like E-M10 I see there are few options. Besides expensive ones like Olympus FL-600R (£300), there is Nissin Di466 for £70 on ebay.
Also there is brand new just released Nissin i40, which is full blown all in one flash that everyone's was waiting for. I think it goes for about £180 in UK.

Thing is I do not know anything about shooting with flash guns. I would simply need flash stronger than bulit-in little flash in my E-M10. This old Di466 sounds good. But then would I need this in that dark church?
 
Church + Flashgun/speedlite usually = no.

I've yet to go to a wedding in a church where a photographer used a flash. Usually overcome with aperture and ISO.

Good luck though try and ask them if there are any particular shots they'd like then as long as you deliver those you'll be half way there.
 
WelshNoob said:
Church + Flashgun/speedlite usually = no.

I've yet to go to a wedding in a church where a photographer used a flash. Usually overcome with aperture and ISO.

Good luck though try and ask them if there are any particular shots they'd like then as long as you deliver those you'll be half way there.
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Right, understood. I'll be using 17mm 1.8 and 45mm 1.8 lens so I guess I could go with large aperture and high ISO.
That Di466 looked promising, I thought I could ue that just for filling in light, but I guess I need to test it first.
 
^Joe said:
I may have missed it.. But are you just using one camera body ?
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Yes, one body, don't have any more. They are fine with this, this is simple request, do some photos. If something happens to my camera, I'll be using my phone:))
 
Have a real good think about this. They may say they are happy with the photos you have taken before but when you hand over a bunch of badley shot wedding images that could always change. This is a sure way to lose a friend. If they are really good friends keep the friendship safe and suggest you help them find a photographer for a reasonable budget. Then make use of this forum to find one. I always say if you have to ask questions on what kit you should have you should not be shooting it.

You say it is going to be a nice sunny day, how do you know? What will you do if it is really bright and you need some fill. What if the church does not allow you towards the front and you need to shoot way from the back without flash. So many tho vs to question.

Once you have found them a photographer why not ask said photographer to assist them and get some wedding experience.

A simple request can very quickly turn sour if you do not deliver what they expect. Many people will say they are Ok while. They are thinking about £ signs but that will soon change when it becomes emotional.
 
Does your camera shoot in RAW and allow exposure bracketing aswell?
 
boyfalldown said:
why would you need, or indeed want, to use exposure bracketing at a wedding
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Ideally you wouldn't you'd like the exposure bang on each time, just thought it might save a few shots that were at the wrong exposure?
 
The concerns seem everyone elses. The OP has been asked to snap the wedding rather than produce a portfolio of perfect picture for the married couple. Instead of trying to make him feel nervous, maybe some advice about some classic poses or other advice so there are at least some great shots would help?
 
asphotographymk said:
Have a real good think about this. They may say they are happy with the photos you have taken before but when you hand over a bunch of badley shot wedding images that could always change. This is a sure way to lose a friend. If they are really good friends keep the friendship safe and suggest you help them find a photographer for a reasonable budget. Then make use of this forum to find one. I always say if you have to ask questions on what kit you should have you should not be shooting it.

You say it is going to be a nice sunny day, how do you know? What will you do if it is really bright and you need some fill. What if the church does not allow you towards the front and you need to shoot way from the back without flash. So many tho vs to question.

Once you have found them a photographer why not ask said photographer to assist them and get some wedding experience.

A simple request can very quickly turn sour if you do not deliver what they expect. Many people will say they are Ok while. They are thinking about £ signs but that will soon change when it becomes emotional.
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True..true... I need to think about that too.
Plus I better take my daughters point&shoot camera just in case mine goes tits up:)
 
WelshNoob said:
The concerns seem everyone elses. The OP has been asked to snap the wedding rather than produce a portfolio of perfect picture for the married couple. Instead of trying to make him feel nervous, maybe some advice about some classic poses or other advice so there are at least some great shots would help?
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Oh, that would be great guys! Please!
I've been checking out different wedding photographers websites to see what kind of compositions I should look for etc, but it would be fantastic if you could give me some hits/ideas what kind of photo for example will always look good, what kind of poses, places, background, compositions etc

I LOVE photos of these couple photographers, they are awesome...
I spoke with a ths couple and I can be with them from the very early morning so that means I could do some preparation photos too, dress, rings, makeup moments, dressing up etc.
I know that I will be free to walk around in church during ceremony, so can literally stick my zoom lens in priest's bum ;) Jokes aside, I will keep a distance from them obviously, but will try to stand behind the priest on his right side to get them all three etc, capture putting rings moment, "yes" moment etc. Try to jump behind them deeper in the hall to get photo of them with full altar. Photo of guests sitting in the church, close-up photos of faces of the wedding couple. Then some group photo after ceremony outside...

Please let me know what else I could do - fairly simple but known compositions that should come out ok even for some amateur like me:)
 
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@Lindsay D shoots proffesionally with an Oly CSC i think, so she might have some wise words (ive tried to tag her but if that doesnt work maybe drop her a pm)

In basic terms if you are planning on doing most of the shots outside - have a plan b in case it p***es with rain . Also you say you'll have freedom to move around - have you checked that with the preist ? ( Its common to find that actually you can't regardless of what the couple have told you prior)

and on the question of dark - yes crank up the iso noisy but sharp is distinctly preferable to clean but blurred - non photographers rarely notice noise wheras everyone notices blur
 
I agree with what has been said here. Phinix, I'm getting the gist that the couple do not have a paid professional photographer attending and have enlisted you instead? It also sounds to me like you want to do a good job for them. However weddings are like no other events - they are fast-moving with ever-changing situations and environments and you will have very little time to get your shots and adjust exposures etc. The key thing here is to set the couple's expectations accordingly. By that I mean explaining to them that you are not a trained photographer and that you will be taking snapshots which will be similar to those gained by the other guests - they must not expect professional grade photography from you. I would also let them know that you are giving up being a guest, because photographing a wedding, even part of the wedding is very demanding both physically and mentally. Plus you have to sift through all the photographs afterwards and do at least some rudimentary postproduction (you'll be shooting RAW) before collating and delivering whatever it is they are expecting - that needs to be agreed as well. Make sure everything is documented in e-mails.

The vast majority of today's modern DSLR and mirrorless cameras are perfectly adequate for weddings, what matters far more is that you have the skills and the correct lenses. I use Olympus Micro 4/3 cameras for my professional work. I suspect your Pana 20 f1.7 will not be wide enough for the contextual shots (it is also notoriously slow and noisy at focusing in anything other than good light and it also causes shadow banding at ISO levels over 800). The Oly 45 f1.8 is perfect for bridal and couple portraits. Pro zooms such as the Pana 35-100 f2.8 are ideal but very expensive. Lens choices do relate to the environment you're in and where you can stand - that is entirely up to the priest by the way so it's important you speak to him/her before you do anything. I think it's a good idea to have a flashgun with you at a wedding (although you will probably not be allowed to use it during the ceremony) for fill flash in bright sunlight and bounce flash in other situations. However if the event is daytime in good light you can probably get away with not having one. As a hobbyist your friends cannot expect you to have all the right lenses, or backup equipment so point that out to them as well.

I agree with Pete about high ISO shooting - don't be afraid of it, the noise characteristics of the Oly cameras is very film like and looks good in monochrome.

Otherwise, read as many wedding tutorials and books as you can and make some notes for the different stages of the day.
 
Lindsay D said:
I agree with what has been said here. Phinix, I'm getting the gist that the couple do not have a paid professional photographer attending and have enlisted you instead? It also sounds to me like you want to do a good job for them. However weddings are like no other events - they are fast-moving with ever-changing situations and environments and you will have very little time to get your shots and adjust exposures etc. The key thing here is to set the couple's expectations accordingly. By that I mean explaining to them that you are not a trained photographer and that you will be taking snapshots which will be similar to those gained by the other guests - they must not expect professional grade photography from you. I would also let them know that you are giving up being a guest, because photographing a wedding, even part of the wedding is very demanding both physically and mentally. Plus you have to sift through all the photographs afterwards and do at least some rudimentary postproduction (you'll be shooting RAW) before collating and delivering whatever it is they are expecting - that needs to be agreed as well. Make sure everything is documented in e-mails.

The vast majority of today's modern DSLR and mirrorless cameras are perfectly adequate for weddings, what matters far more is that you have the skills and the correct lenses. I use Olympus Micro 4/3 cameras for my professional work. I suspect your Pana 20 f1.7 will not be wide enough for the contextual shots (it is also notoriously slow and noisy at focusing in anything other than good light and it also causes shadow banding at ISO levels over 800). The Oly 45 f1.8 is perfect for bridal and couple portraits. Pro zooms such as the Pana 35-100 f2.8 are ideal but very expensive. Lens choices do relate to the environment you're in and where you can stand - that is entirely up to the priest by the way so it's important you speak to him/her before you do anything. I think it's a good idea to have a flashgun with you at a wedding (although you will probably not be allowed to use it during the ceremony) for fill flash in bright sunlight and bounce flash in other situations. However if the event is daytime in good light you can probably get away with not having one. As a hobbyist your friends cannot expect you to have all the right lenses, or backup equipment so point that out to them as well.

I agree with Pete about high ISO shooting - don't be afraid of it, the noise characteristics of the Oly cameras is very film like and looks good in monochrome.

Otherwise, read as many wedding tutorials and books as you can and make some notes for the different stages of the day.
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Hi, thanks for posting here.

Yeah, everything was said between me and them - they know what they can expect, they know that I'm not a pro photographer, that I won't have spare equipment etc.

Lens wise - I'm getting Oly 17mm 1.8 at the end of month, so will have 17mm and 45mm lens on that wedding. 20mm is too sloooooow, it has to go:)
I think I will also buy that Di466 flash gun - should be good for my first ever flash gun, simple and easy to use. Some fill flash and bounced, exactly like you said. Not that I know how to use flash gun, but I will have 4 weeks before the wedding to practice:) That is all I will have - don't want to buy stuff especially for that event, all I'm buying it's actually for myself. Flash gun is simple and cheap (£70), I can always use it later for my daughter's portraits or other events in the future. Lens - I just switched from Panasonic to Olympus, selling G5 and getting E-M10. 20mm lens are ok on Oly body, but very slow, I could even say slower than on Pana.
Will be shooting in RAW, then after the event will spend some time to prepare those photos in Lightroom. High ISO should help inside church, it's all arranged, I can walk around and do photos, no flash of course. it's dark church but those primes with high ISO should handle it ok.
After ceremony I'll gather everyone outside the church and shoot some group photos. Then all will move to party place. I will do some entrance photos, then inside. Will also take married couple outside for a walk in a park and also just found out will have full access to Chopin Centre, which is a very nice building with huge garden and a pond, should be great for backgrounds.
szafarnia(3).jpg
naszeszafarnia_i.jpg


Now I need to go through as much wedding portfolios as I can:)
 
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Yes, I think the 20mm is a bit slower on the Oly bodies. You sound like you're getting organised, there are also some good posts here on the forum for people doing their first wedding for friends, with a lot of good advice - it's worth looking through and digging them out. With regards to using flashguns and bouncing, you can pick up some very good tips here: http://neilvn.com/tangents/

I would advise sitting down with your friends a couple of weeks before the wedding and going through their timeline in detail because this will determine when you can do their portraits and the group shots - you may not have as much time as you think outside of the church for all of the groups so you might want to concentrate on the bride and groom with their respective immediate families and then do the more informal groups at the reception venue such as the bridesmaids, bride with bridesmaids etc. You will need to have a list of who is who and someone to help you round them all up when you need them - make it clear to the couple that you may not be able to take all of the photos they would like because weddings are dynamic events. Try and remember the details as well, such as buttonholes, bouquets, the tables before everyone sits down etc.

I'm surprised the officiant has said you can walk around and take photos during the ceremony - normally there are only one or two locations where you can move to - did the couple tell you this or have you actually spoken to the officiant? Either way, make sure you doublecheck the rules when you arrive on the day because it's surprising how often the goalposts can change. You might also want to ask if you can use flash for the recessional.
 
phinix said:
After ceremony I'll gather everyone outside the church and shoot some group photos. Then all will move to party place. I will do some entrance photos, then inside. Will also take married couple outside for a walk in a park and also just found out will have full access to Chopin Centre, which is a very nice building with huge garden and a pond, should be great for backgrounds.
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what's the fallback plan if/when it p***es with rain and or blows a hooley ? (this is the UK after all)
 
Lindsay D said:
Yes, I think the 20mm is a bit slower on the Oly bodies. You sound like you're getting organised, there are also some good posts here on the forum for people doing their first wedding for friends, with a lot of good advice - it's worth looking through and digging them out. With regards to using flashguns and bouncing, you can pick up some very good tips here: http://neilvn.com/tangents/

I would advise sitting down with your friends a couple of weeks before the wedding and going through their timeline in detail because this will determine when you can do their portraits and the group shots - you may not have as much time as you think outside of the church for all of the groups so you might want to concentrate on the bride and groom with their respective immediate families and then do the more informal groups at the reception venue such as the bridesmaids, bride with bridesmaids etc. You will need to have a list of who is who and someone to help you round them all up when you need them - make it clear to the couple that you may not be able to take all of the photos they would like because weddings are dynamic events. Try and remember the details as well, such as buttonholes, bouquets, the tables before everyone sits down etc.

I'm surprised the officiant has said you can walk around and take photos during the ceremony - normally there are only one or two locations where you can move to - did the couple tell you this or have you actually spoken to the officiant? Either way, make sure you doublecheck the rules when you arrive on the day because it's surprising how often the goalposts can change. You might also want to ask if you can use flash for the recessional.
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Thanks, need to take a look at those tips and wedding threads.
Going through the timeline is done, I spoke with them online (different country) and I roughly know all the steps of the ceremony. I said to them that I won't be able to do all the possible shots/photos, so they're aware of it. They are very flexible - they said that if I can get few good photos they will be happy, so it's a bit of relief;) Still, I will try to do my best and get some nice shots. There won't be anyone who would let me know who is who, but I will simply shot everyone.
Church wise - I will check with priest again if he's really ok with me lurking around during ceremony. No flash of course.

Thank you for all your tips, will remember all possible compositions (rings, bouquets etc). I will be let inside before ceremony, so will be able to shoot bride during makeup, hair dressing, dressing up etc. :naughty:Should be nice. I only wonder if my idea of composition will meet the result:) Let's hope my primes will do the rest:) Just got my 45mm 1.8 lens - WOW! Just WOW! I'm shocked how fast these are! Pana 20mm is soooooo sloooooow on Oly body. Plus it is literally silent! I LOVE Olympus hardware!:D
 
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big soft moose said:
what's the fallback plan if/when it p***es with rain and or blows a hooley ? (this is the UK after all)
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No worries about the weather, it will be in Poland, it's like 30-35°C all day. Only p*** I will see is my sweat:)
 
phinix said:
it will be in Poland, it's like 30-35°C all day. :)
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OMG. I would die of heat stroke if that were me - I know how obvious this sounds but make sure you have a full bottle of water on you at all times and keep drinking from it - weddings are physically tiring at best, in those temperatures you need to take extra care.

Very best of luck and do please come back and tell us how everything went.
 
Lindsay D said:
OMG. I would die of heat stroke if that were me - I know how obvious this sounds but make sure you have a full bottle of water on you at all times and keep drinking from it - weddings are physically tiring at best, in those temperatures you need to take extra care.

Very best of luck and do please come back and tell us how everything went.
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Yep, will have a bottle with me. I hate this kind of weather, I'm not a fan of high temps so it will be hard to take :)
My mum, who still lives there told me that this August supposed to be the worst (highest temps) in 12 years, so I'll be there for a real treat! :jawdrop:

Thank you and yes, will get back with results:)
It will happen at the end of August, so still have time to go through all wedding threads on our forum and practice with my new camera(y)
 
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