Another camera so soon...

jonbeeza

jonbeeza

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I thought after buying the Fuji XF10 a month or two ago, I would be done with purchasing another camera.

But...

Here I am again, and I am looking at another camera. Yes the Fuji XF10 is a fun little camera, and the IQ is pretty good.
But it does not give me what I am looking for at the moment.
I want a camera with a slim body when lens is attached, and it must have a view finder that has information displayed in viewfinder.
It must also have bright lens, possibly f/1.8 or f/2 for indoor photos.

I want to be able to carry this camera around with me on a daily basis, around my neck on a thin strap.

Only looking for a used camera, as I want to take it out daily and not worry about bumps and scratches.


At the moment I have:

Fuji XF10 but no view finder and it is f/2.8

Nikon D90 and 50mm 1.8D I thought this would be the ideal carry about camera, as it is old and not expensive. The IQ is ok for an old camera, but I am finding it too bulky, even with the 50mm1.8D lens fitted. So I don't take it out on a daily basis.

Nikon D3300 and the 35mm 1.8G this combination gives pretty good performance, even though it is one of the smallest DSLR's out there, with the 35mm lens on, it sticks out too much, and not really good for taking out ever day, or at least for me it is not.

Canon G7X mk11 a cracking little camera, but no viewfinder and difficult to see in bright daylight.

I know the ideal choice would probably be the Fuji X100, but I will not pay the high prices they command.

Looking for the sort of design of an X100, but without the price tag

I don't think there is anything out there, as an alternative, or is there?

EDIT..

Rude Comments not wanted, thanks. (y) :) (y)
 
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I know you have mentioned price but the X100 is hard to beat! I did have the original, not the fastest AF wise but great in all other ways) - I used my old T a lot and now the F is damn near perfect. It has everything you could want. The T appears to be available from 350-425 used which I think is a good price and worth that bit xtra from the original.
 
Panasonic Lumix G3or GX80 with either 12-32 or (20mm f1.7, 14mm f2.5)
 
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dancook said:
Fuji X100 at MPB for £294 in good condition - and you want to pay less?
Click to expand...


The S model is £400 odd, and described as " This camera body is in good overall condition with some cosmetic signs of use. There are some marks and scuffs to the paintwork on the body. The rear LCD screen has some light marks. The sensor is clear and free of scratches. The flash mount shows signs of wear. All rubber grips and covers are present but show some light wear".

Not sure I would pay £400 for something described as above. (y) :) (y)
 
Not really looking for any rude comments, so please I prefer if you did NOT.
If you Don't like what I write, simply Don't reply. Or please put me on ignore, Simples (y):)(y)
 
If you're not wedded to Fuji and you want a high performance small camera, you could look at the Panasonic GM5. They're tiny, have viewfinder information and the 12-32mm standard zoom is fast enough for anything I want to do. Unfortunately they're scarce...

Cameras Panasonic GM5 white background SL300 DSCF3760.JPG

Tiny dog photographed with tiny camera...

Chihuahua in Window of Sidwell Street hairdressers Exeter GM5 _1050473.JPG
 
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X-30? The only reason I don't use mine much these days is that it doesn't slip into a (non coat) pocket. Barely noticeable round the neck, f/2 at the short end, f/2.8 at the long. Fuji JPEGs!
 
MFT? Panasonic GX80 or GX9?

I like the RF style cameras and although the GX9 is possibly the more upmarket of these two I sort of have a soft spot for the GX80 because it's a bit more basic, cheaper and a maybe a hair or two smaller.

These cameras can make for a compact camera and lens set up but be aware that if you want f1.8 or f2 to keep the image quality up for indoor pictures crop factors relate to image quality too so f1.8 in MFT is about the same as f3.6 FF and f1.8 APS-C is about the same as f2.7 FF so you could maybe look at a compact FF camera with a f2.8 lens and still have reasonable in door performance?
 
jonbeeza said:
Not really looking for any rude comments, so please I prefer if you did NOT.
If you Don't like what I write, simply Don't reply. Or please put me on ignore, Simples (y):)(y)
Click to expand...

I don’t see any rude comments, so i hope you don’t mean me. I personally was just trying to understand your budget as it was not mentioned.

I don’t know any cameras under £300, so I can’t help there.
 
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Thanks for the comments so far, doing a bit of reading up. :)
 
Also, it is not a case of me wanting something for nothing. But I already have plenty of cameras, so I want something low cost. As I can't really be spending a great deal of money to me, on more camera stuff.

But if I can find something old, but with a bit of life left in it, then I don't mind spending a few hundred quid on it. (y):)(y)
 
Nod said:
X-30? The only reason I don't use mine much these days is that it doesn't slip into a (non coat) pocket. Barely noticeable round the neck, f/2 at the short end, f/2.8 at the long. Fuji JPEGs!
Click to expand...

I suppose that would make sense, as I still have the Batteries and charges and even the neck straps from my XF1 and the X10, that's if the batteries are the same?
I will have to check that out.
 
Different batteries, I'm afraid. X-30 charges the battery in the camera via USB. I use a universal charger for mine when I charge the spare as well as the one in the camera.
 
Nod said:
Different batteries, I'm afraid. X-30 charges the battery in the camera via USB. I use a universal charger for mine when I charge the spare as well as the one in the camera.
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Bahh, that could have swung it for me, having two batteries already.

Thanks for that.
 
Nod said:
Different batteries, I'm afraid. X-30 charges the battery in the camera via USB. I use a universal charger for mine when I charge the spare as well as the one in the camera.
Click to expand...
2 Battery.jpg

Just realised the two spare batteries that I bought for the Fuji XF10 are the NP95, the same as the Fuji X-30. So I have the potential of four batteries for either the XF10, or an X-30 should I get one that is. :-)
 
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Reactions: Nod
Fate? ;)
 
I'm a MFT fan
I've had a GF7, GX9, G9, still have the GM1

fun and capable cameras.
For what you need I think the GX9 is a winner. It's fast, lovely quality, angled viewfinder and quite small.
you can get pancake lenses, I wouldn't rate pancake zooms myself, but the best combo I have is
Larger lenses but nice
42.5mm 1.7, 25mm 1.4,

Pancake lenses and very pocketable,
14mm f/2,5m, 20mm f1,7

on the GM1, glasses for scale, it's a little less pronounced without the filter on it.
gm1.jpg

of course, on a M43rds sensor, the exposure doesn't negatively get multipled by the crop factor, but the effective depth of field does alongside the equivalent focal length
 
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woof woof said:
MFT? Panasonic GX80 or GX9?

I like the RF style cameras and although the GX9 is possibly the more upmarket of these two I sort of have a soft spot for the GX80 because it's a bit more basic, cheaper and a maybe a hair or two smaller.

These cameras can make for a compact camera and lens set up but be aware that if you want f1.8 or f2 to keep the image quality up for indoor pictures crop factors relate to image quality too so f1.8 in MFT is about the same as f3.6 FF and f1.8 APS-C is about the same as f2.7 FF so you could maybe look at a compact FF camera with a f2.8 lens and still have reasonable in door performance?
Click to expand...

I'm just catching up with some of this thread, as an MTF fan.
Exposure doesn't change with the crop factor as far as I'm aware, just focal length and DOF equivalence.
 
jonbeeza said:
Canon G7X mk11 a cracking little camera, but no viewfinder and difficult to see in bright daylight.
Click to expand...

I'm still loving my G7X after all these years, the lack of viewfinder never worried me, the tilt up screen deals with any light refection - I shoot from the hip most of the time.

I'm no expert but these Fujis ... they don't have tilt up screens do they? I wouldn't buy a camera without one.
 
DizMatt said:
I'm just catching up with some of this thread, as an MTF fan.
Exposure doesn't change with the crop factor as far as I'm aware, just focal length and DOF equivalence.
Click to expand...

Exposure doesn't change but the crop factor is arguably pretty much applicable to image quality.

So, for example starting at MFT and f1.8 and assuming we're keeping about the same DoF...

MFT at f1.8 + a reasonable shutter speed and the ISO that goes with it should be roughly equal image quality wise to...
APS-C at f2.x + the same shutter speed and a higher ISO to maintain the same exposure and that should be just about the same image quality wise as...
FF at f3.6 + the same shutter speed and a higher ISO to maintain the same exposure.

My wider point being that if we want to take pictures indoors and want f1.8/2 (as the op stated) we really need to think about the quality we'll accept too and what the various formats could give. The op is afaik using APS-C so I assume that the f1.8/2 requirement is for APS-C and if so maybe ff at f2.8 could be acceptable? This is based on f1.8 in APS-C being about the same image quality as f2.7 FF (so round that up to f2.8) with about the same shutter speed and a higher ISO being used on FF.

It was just something for the op to think about as ruling f2.8 out on APS-C may not mean ruling f2.8 out for FF.
 
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DizMatt said:
I'm a MFT fan
I've had a GF7, GX9, G9, still have the GM1

fun and capable cameras.
For what you need I think the GX9 is a winner. It's fast, lovely quality, angled viewfinder and quite small.
you can get pancake lenses, I wouldn't rate pancake zooms myself, but the best combo I have is
Larger lenses but nice
42.5mm 1.7, 25mm 1.4,

Pancake lenses and very pocketable,
14mm f/2,5m, 20mm f1,7

on the GM1, glasses for scale, it's a little less pronounced without the filter on it.
View attachment 312195

of course, on a M43rds sensor, the exposure doesn't negatively get multipled by the crop factor, but the effective depth of field does alongside the equivalent focal length
Click to expand...
And don't forget the Body Cap Lenses 9mm and 15mm. I've never used one. Personally, I like a zoom, something small but big enough to hold .... 12-60 or 45-150 are my most used on my GX80.
 
d00d said:
I'm still loving my G7X after all these years, the lack of viewfinder never worried me, the tilt up screen deals with any light refection - I shoot from the hip most of the time.

I'm no expert but these Fujis ... they don't have tilt up screens do they? I wouldn't buy a camera without one.
Click to expand...

I did toy with the idea of getting a neck strap for the G7X, but I would still miss the composing the shot via viewfinder, as that is what I miss. I am not getting the connected feeling, when I shoot from the hip, or at arms length.
 
I went into a big store yesterday, it was huge (the Range). Not many people about, I was just picking a few things up. I had my little Fuji XF10 in my hand, a woman (possibly manager) followed me and asked me if she could help me, she said this while looking at the camera. I simply said no thank you I am fine.

It is things like this that I want to avoid, so the camera is always slung around my neck. If the camera is slung around my neck and on view, maybe it will not have the same effect as having it in my hand. Just a thought. If that sort of makes sense?
 
jonbeeza said:
I suppose that would make sense, as I still have the Batteries and charges and even the neck straps from my XF1 and the X10, that's if the batteries are the same?
I will have to check that out.
Click to expand...

Why not use the X-10? Or is that gone?
 
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THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
Why not use the X-10? Or is that gone?
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That along with the XF1 died, both seemed to have suffered from the same problem, because of the action of the lens, something like the tab wire thing breaks, or snaps, because of the constant zooming in and out of the lens. It is the wire tab that sends the signal to the LCD screen that fails.

One of the reasons that was slightly hindering my decision on going for an old X-30, even though it would be a good option, seeing I already had two of the same type of batteries that the X-30 uses. I was seriously tempted at a punt with an old X-30. But I would really hate the same lens error to occur.

Still pondering things.
 
jonbeeza said:
That along with the XF1 died, both seemed to have suffered from the same problem, because of the action of the lens, something like the tab wire thing breaks, or snaps, because of the constant zooming in and out of the lens. It is the wire tab that sends the signal to the LCD screen that fails.

One of the reasons that was slightly hindering my decision on going for an old X-30, even though it would be a good option, seeing I already had two of the same type of batteries that the X-30 uses. I was seriously tempted at a punt with an old X-30. But I would really hate the same lens error to occur.

Still pondering things.
Click to expand...

Strange. Not heard of that before. I still have my X10 and it's going strong as ever. In fact, I sold my X30 some years ago to go back to the X10 as I personally preferred it.
 
THIRTYFIVEMILL said:
Strange. Not heard of that before. I still have my X10 and it's going strong as ever. In fact, I sold my X30 some years ago to go back to the X10 as I personally preferred it.
Click to expand...

Yes, the lens control error, a common phenomenon with the XF1 and X10, mine both died because of it. :(
 
woof woof said:
Exposure doesn't change but the crop factor is arguably pretty much applicable to image quality.

So, for example starting at MFT and f1.8 and assuming we're keeping about the same DoF...

MFT at f1.8 + a reasonable shutter speed and the ISO that goes with it should be roughly equal image quality wise to...
APS-C at f2.x + the same shutter speed and a higher ISO to maintain the same exposure and that should be just about the same image quality wise as...
FF at f3.6 + the same shutter speed and a higher ISO to maintain the same exposure.

My wider point being that if we want to take pictures indoors and want f1.8/2 (as the op stated) we really need to think about the quality we'll accept too and what the various formats could give. The op is afaik using APS-C so I assume that the f1.8/2 requirement is for APS-C and if so maybe ff at f2.8 could be acceptable? This is based on f1.8 in APS-C being about the same image quality as f2.7 FF (so round that up to f2.8) with about the same shutter speed and a higher ISO being used on FF.

It was just something for the op to think about as ruling f2.8 out on APS-C may not mean ruling f2.8 out for FF.
Click to expand...

I don't see the direct relationship between those figure myself, unless you're talking about pixel density. Full Frame is typically nicer in low light but it's down to the pixel density and quality rather than a crop factor of x1 (vs 35mm). My main concern would be getting a nice fast lens and then stopping that down a little over other factors.
Exposure doesn't change with crop factor, f/2 is f/2 is f/2.
I've tried it myself, back to back with FF, APS-C and MFT.
DOF doesn't affect image quality if you're talking about sharpness, only the feel of the image.
If the OP is looking at an Fujifilm X100V ideally, then it's APS-C shooting at f/2, which is fast, but had the equiv DOP of f/3.2 and around 50mm equiv field of view.

My opinion for reasonable money would.
Lumix GX9, which is a decent size but powerful.
Lumix 14mm f/2.5 if you need something wider
Lumix 20mm f/1.7 for 40mm equiv and reasonable "fast"

or a smaller Fuji to match the OP's kit with the FUJINON XF18mmF2 R
Interchangable lenses and some primes will change how you shoot in my opinion
 
DizMatt said:
I don't see the direct relationship between those figure myself, unless you're talking about pixel density. Full Frame is typically nicer in low light but it's down to the pixel density and quality rather than a crop factor of x1 (vs 35mm). My main concern would be getting a nice fast lens and then stopping that down a little over other factors.
Exposure doesn't change with crop factor, f/2 is f/2 is f/2.
I've tried it myself, back to back with FF, APS-C and MFT.
DOF doesn't affect image quality if you're talking about sharpness, only the feel of the image.
If the OP is looking at an Fujifilm X100V ideally, then it's APS-C shooting at f/2, which is fast, but had the equiv DOP of f/3.2 and around 50mm equiv field of view.
Click to expand...

I never said that exposure changes with crop factor, I never said anything like that and yes I know DoF doesn't affect IQ. And no, it's not more to do with pixel density it's more to do with how much you magnify the image. Magnify APS-C or MFT more to match the size of a FF image and you'll see image quality issues more readily. Pixel density is only relevant if you're looking at images at high magnification when a high pixel count chip may show more noise compared to a low pixel count chip when both are viewed at 100% in photoshop but equalise the image sizes and the high pixel count image may well look nicer with more detail.

I posted above as the OP discounted f2.8 but seems ok with f2 on APS-C whilst my point was that f2.8 on FF could give the required quality as it may well offer equivalent or even perhaps better image quality than APS-C at f1.8/2 for any given equal exposure.

If you don't see or accept that then fine, good for you. I respect your beliefs and experiences :D
 
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Thanks for all the replies...

I have decided to go for the Fuji X100S. I am currently bidding on one. It is described as " immaculate condition with little use, boxed as new". :)
 
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