Advice on shooting textile products..

arad85

arad85

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My other half is in the process of setting up a designer textile business ranging from table mats to larger quilts. We'd like to get some decent product photos but most of the pro style one seem to be "in context" (i.e. on a showhome style table with sumptuous curtains behind for example) or on a white background. I currently have a 580II, 602s, a shoot through and light stand.

In order to take decent product photos, am I wasting my time with the equipment I have and should I be looking at a multi-head mains powered flash system plus product table or can I get satisfactory results by improving my technique? If technique - any pointers? ;)
 
arad85 said:
My other half is in the process of setting up a designer textile business ranging from table mats to larger quilts. We'd like to get some decent product photos but most of the pro style one seem to be "in context" (i.e. on a showhome style table with sumptuous curtains behind for example) or on a white background. I currently have a 580II, 602s, a shoot through and light stand.

In order to take decent product photos, am I wasting my time with the equipment I have and should I be looking at a multi-head mains powered flash system plus product table or can I get satisfactory results by improving my technique? If technique - any pointers? ;)
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I would say it is possible to get satisfactory results with your gear but you'll need to know what your doing to make it work. Depending on your skill level you might be better off just paying a pro to take the shots for you unless you will be doing lots of this type of photography on an ongoing basis.
 
Thanks Graham. This is a very small business at the moment (i.e. she hasn't sold anything ;)) so money is tight, plus I want to learn (I understand the basics, but need practice to see what works). Any pointers on t'internet to how you'd light textiles as I can't find any good ones.
 
I've been asked about this by PM but think it's better to reply in the thread, so that everyone can see...

Whether or not you should buy a product shooting table depends on whether or not you want to create the photos in a lifestyle setting - certainly it's easier and quicker with a product shooting table but arguably better to produce lifestyle shots.

Personally, I don't think that you can do much with your present equipment. You can certainly produce accurate but bland shots showing what the product looks like but it will take enormous skill and care to produce anything better than the equivalent of a passport photo. If you want to sell products you need to produce the equivalent of a beauty shot, not a passport photo!

It's all about controlling the light, not just about having enough of it. Controlling the light means creating shadows that make the product come alive, and one of the tools that you really will need for that is a flash head fitted with a honeycomb grid (preferably fitted to a beauty dish) at an oblique angle, to reveal the texture of the material and make people want to actually touch it. In theory, you can make up a honeycomb grid for a hotshoe flashgun but it will be far too small, and you will also need to place it a long way away, to prevent excessive light fall off, and there won't be anywhere near enough power for that.

I've done a lot of this type of photography and I know what I'm talking about. I would like to post some examples, illustrating the kind of lighting I'm talking about but I never post images produced for my advertising clients on forums - legally I have the right but clients tend not to like it, and my clients come first. If the OP (or anyone else) wants to see some examples, I will gladly email them, on the clear understanding that they will not be posted.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I've been asked about this by PM but think it's better to reply in the thread, so that everyone can see...

Whether or not you should buy a product shooting table depends on whether or not you want to create the photos in a lifestyle setting - certainly it's easier and quicker with a product shooting table but arguably better to produce lifestyle shots.

Personally, I don't think that you can do much with your present equipment. You can certainly produce accurate but bland shots showing what the product looks like but it will take enormous skill and care to produce anything better than the equivalent of a passport photo. If you want to sell products you need to produce the equivalent of a beauty shot, not a passport photo!

It's all about controlling the light, not just about having enough of it. Controlling the light means creating shadows that make the product come alive, and one of the tools that you really will need for that is a flash head fitted with a honeycomb grid (preferably fitted to a beauty dish) at an oblique angle, to reveal the texture of the material and make people want to actually touch it. In theory, you can make up a honeycomb grid for a hotshoe flashgun but it will be far too small, and you will also need to place it a long way away, to prevent excessive light fall off, and there won't be anywhere near enough power for that.

I've done a lot of this type of photography and I know what I'm talking about. I would like to post some examples, illustrating the kind of lighting I'm talking about but I never post images produced for my advertising clients on forums - legally I have the right but clients tend not to like it, and my clients come first. If the OP (or anyone else) wants to see some examples, I will gladly email them, on the clear understanding that they will not be posted.
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Look I totally agree that small hotshoe flash isn't the best way to go for this type of thing, I think it can be done, but you would need to get creative and improvise with the gear you have and its going to take a fair amount of experience to pull it off. Which is why I suggested just paying someone who has the kit and experience to do the job.

I don't think there's anything wrong with setting yourself up to do it yourself in the future, its probably a good idea if this will be ongoing, but don't expect instant success without some training and practice.
 
lensflair said:
Look I totally agree that small hotshoe flash isn't the best way to go for this type of thing, I think it can be done, but you would need to get creative and improvise with the gear you have and its going to take a fair amount of experience to pull it off. Which is why I suggested just paying someone who has the kit and experience to do the job.

I don't think there's anything wrong with setting yourself up to do it yourself in the future, its probably a good idea if this will be ongoing, but don't expect instant success without some training and practice.
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I certainly agree that training and practice is needed - but you know, although it takes many years to become a competent still life photographer, learning to do just one type of lighting on one type of product isn't difficult.
 
Hi both. Thanks for the feedback.

We're both keen photographers so I'm not against spending some money to invest in doing this well if needed. Consequently, we're interested in doing it ourselves as if going mains flash, we should be able to reuse for family shots too :)

As to experience, I have my head around flash, inverse square law, why you use more than one flash, modifiers and why you use them etc.. but have very little practical experience so wouldn't be to eek 110% performance of my equipment (much closer to 10% at the moment!!). My guess is that I'd get pretty hacked off trying to learn how to do this if I'm constantly battling the equipment setup as I haven't got the right thing to get the effect I need. I'm open to suggestions on how to go forward - from another cheap flash up to a smallish studio style system (but can't justifying investing a lot at the moment).

I'll PM you Garry with my mail address - I'd be very interested in seeing what you've done and all images would be kept private. Thanks for the offer :)
 
This is the most testing form of photography. It's about light, with a million permutations - the camera side is easy.

If you know what you're doing, and it's a skill really only acquired with both good understanding and lots of practise, you know what the equipment can do and workaround to make the most of it and get a decent result, but it will rarely be optimum.

I think you will be floundering around for ever without decent studio lights, particularly using the modelling light until you get the hang of things. Positioning is critical. Live view, and an assistant to move the lights for you, makes things easier when you're learning.

Garry's advice is good, and Lencarta is the place to look on a budget, also Elinchrom and Bowens.

It's a very broad question. Can you link to an example/s that you aspire to? There is a million miles between product shots for ebay and a full page advertisement. The techniques you apply would vary a lot if all you want to show is a design, as opposed to fabric texture, or even both of those things in an appealing environment. It might be hard to show everything in one shot. You seem up for it, and it's fun and rewarding work - good luck :)
 
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arad85 said:
Thanks Richard,

I've been mailing Garry during today as well and his product photos that he forwarded look to be the sort of thing I want to do. He suggested 3 lights plus appropriate modifiers...

Examples - anything from white background, through closeups showing detailing to set pieces like: http://www.kaleidoscope.co.uk/Zuric...llpartial&Ns=P_Colour|0||P_Size|0&Ntk=PRIMARY
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Oh wow! Nothing tricky then! That's a three-in-one shot as described above :eek: with plenty of styling work thrown in. I used to try that sort of thing as a student (all the gear, no idea) and the results were, erm, not like that... Sharp, nicely composed, perfect exposure - but rubbish!

But don't be daunted. You'll get there if you put the effort in. It's much less about the equipment, and much more how you use it. Understand light, read plenty, look at pictures and anlayse them, know what the different tools do.

Three lights is good, you'll need them eventually and the price is probably good, but don't skimp on the modifiers. Garry's suggestion of grids is good for this kind of thing, lots more control. Modifiers are both about putting the right kind of light where you want it, and nowhere else.

I would say this though - always start with one light and get that right first. The main subject light always does most of the work, sometimes all of it, and add effect lights one at a time, building carefully. Generally less is more, and conflicting shadows look terrible. Bear in mind that with this kind of work a variety of reflectors, from four feet wide to four inches, are like extra lights - silver, white and black too. Flags, gobos, cookies an' all that too.

Also I would get heads with proportional modelling lights. Others may disagree but I think that's a drawback with the Lencarta Smartflashes if those are what you're looking at. Modelling lights are not an absolute guide, but they're a good stear and if your main light is at one setting and your other lights are two or three stops down but the modelling lights are all on full, then it will take you much longer to get the balance right.

Keep us posted :)

Edit: get a boom, with a nice (rectangular?) gridded softbox :thumbs: For larger subjects, that would probably be your main light for most things. Okay, the light is maybe subjective, but the boom will be very useful.
 
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Thanks Richard. Was thinking (well Garry suggested) 2 largish softboxes and a 10 deg honeycomb. I'm thinking an overhead is pretty much mandatory for any close work, so was going to add that too. Undecided on smartflashes TBH. Possibly thinking 2 x 300 Pros and a single smartflash. Do you think it's worth pushing the boat and going 3 x 300s?

Can't afford Bowens/Elinchrom, so it'll either be Lencarta or Elemental I think.
 
Deffo 3x 300. They have proportional modelling lights, good five stops power range, and they will all be the same so you know where you are.

I would get a big square softbox and a smaller one (100x100 and 60x60?) both with grids which are great for feathering and reducing flare, a snoot and maybe that nice deep tulip reflector with honeycomb. That's just me though. Sizes might depend on the size of the subject, but get a bit of variety. Be guided by Garry on that stuff.

I hope you've got plenty of studio space for all this lot. With booms and big softboxes you need far more space than you imagine, even if the working area is small.
 
HoppyUK said:
Deffo 3x 300. They have proportional modelling lights, good five stops power range, and they will all be the same so you know where you are.

I would get a big square softbox and a smaller one (100x100 and 60x60?) both with grids which are great for feathering and reducing flare, a snoot and maybe that nice deep tulip reflector with honeycomb. That's just me though. Sizes might depend on the size of the subject, but get a bit of variety. Be guided by Garry on that stuff.
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Thanks.

HoppyUK said:
I hope you've got plenty of studio space for all this lot.
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Fairly big house and (cluttered but can be cleaned) double garage if necessary. No dedicated room, but was thinking of utilising the table in the dining room which does open out into the lounge if necessary) I'm beginning to think space may be the limiting factor here (once I've got over the lack of skills ;))...
 
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