Advice Needed - Replacement Amplifier for Aging HiFi rig...

TheBigYin

TheBigYin

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Ok - heres where I am. Basically, in the early 2000's I "mothballed" my HiFi separates setup because I basically moved back into the family home to take care of my aging parents. The kit was as follows

AR "The Turntable" - Circa 1986 - for those who don't know it, its sort of a "Sondek Lite" - same principles, sprung undamped subchassis and floating armboard - at the time I did an A-B comparison at home between it and the Rega 3 and it basically wiped the floor with the Rega.

Mission 737r Speakers - Another Mid/Late 1980's treasure - not quite up to the 770's but they were smaller, more compact, and more suitable to rooms smaller than 6m x 8m...

Aiwa AD-F 990 3-head Cassette deck - probably overkill for what I used it for, but I think i'd had a good christmas bonus back in 1985...

There's also a Teac 4 channel Reel-to-Reel that I can't remember the serial no. of, because it's still in storage at the moment, and a cd-recorder / player that again hasn't found its way out of the packaging yet...

and of course the thing I need advice upon - the amplifier.

Now, this one's completely "off the wall" - from the above list, I guess most people who were into HiFi in the 1980's would be thinking NAD, AR Cambridge, maybe even Naim - but I went very leftfield...

I've currently got a Technics SU-V55A - wtf is that and why did I buy it. You know, looking back, I'm asking the same thing. At the time I remember doing an AB comparison with the NAD 3020's "big brother" - can't remember the serials as it's best part of 40 years ago, bought in 1990, when my Marantz amp gave up the ghost - and the Technics was marginally cleaner and "faster" - read more controlled on the bass-end which helped with the Mission's.

Anyhow - I was happy with it right up until it went into storage. When I dragged it out a month or so ago, it was humming like crazy, and every single potentiometer was crackling. 3 input channels weren't working, and after 10 minutes it switched itself off. Opened the lid, had a look around - it needed a complete re-capping (only to be expected I guess) but I counted over 25 separate dry solder joints - at which point i thought "stuff that for a lark - i'll get a replacement amp"

I'm not looking for some all-singing all-dancing amp to be honest - it'd be nice if i had 2 tape input/outputs - to be able to play from the cassette and record to CD for example - I can always jack the reel-to-reel into an aux channel - as I don't envisage actually recording anything from the hi-fi sources to it - but may want to make more "portable" versions of the big box of old master tapes from various bands I was involved in BITD...

But I do ideally want a "proper" phono input, rather than a phono-preamp that goes into a line-in - just to reduce the clutter of boxes and wires a little.

and - i'm trying to do this on a budget (£150 or under ideally) - hopefully something from a "name brand" that I might possibly recognise - and if s/h then new enough that I'm not back to the soldering iron and wasting a day re-cap'ing and swearing at things. It'd also be nice if it looked at least somewhat similar to the old school standard width components - which would also help it fit in the housing unit.

I'll leave this one with you lot to hopefully come up with something - while I go back to re-commissioning the AR turntable - it seems to have developed a "knock" from the motor - which is pretty much unobtanium for the UK 50hz spec at least - so I've had the old one in bits, cleaned everything, and I'm currently running it back in whilst drip feeding it on extremely light machine oil - 36 hours of continuous running so far, and its knock is now barely audible - though i don't know if it'll be worse through the amplification chain, as, yep, I haven't got a working amp...
 
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In my ever so humble view, s/h Yamaha AS 500.

Best bang for buck in all of hifi and has everything you need.
 
think I had one of those - was a b****r to kickstart... no wait, that was the XT500

ETA: just had a quick glance on fleabay and there's only a couple up at the moment - running around £200 for something you'd let into the house or £20 less for something that looks lite it was run over by a truck... Still - it certainly covers all the inputs/bases - tbh it looks very like the Technics i've just given up on apart from missing a tone bypass, but hopefully with better build quality. Problem is with the early 90's stuff is they were just going over to lead free solder in the factories, and everythings plagued with dry joints...
 
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I'd go into Richersounds as they have a good selection and unlike most shops they have a clue.

If you can get something by Cambridge audio you can't go far wrong.

These days a combined amp and streamer is probably a good idea. That way it's easy to use streaming services as well as older analogue sources too.
 
srichards said:
I'd go into Richersounds as they have a good selection and unlike most shops they have a clue.

If you can get something by Cambridge audio you can't go far wrong.

These days a combined amp and streamer is probably a good idea. That way it's easy to use streaming services as well as older analogue sources too.
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Richersounds was going to be my suggestion too.
 
I`v just bought AXR100R from Cambridges Ebay site open box for £340 which is due tomorrow, which will replace my Yamaha rs201. Wanted something with optical inputs and a sub out, plus a phono stage.
 
I know HiFi kit was never cheap per-se, and its always easier spending other peoples money than your own, but I did say my budget was ideally under £150 - now, tell me if I'm being unrealistic with that please, and I'll get everything working and flog the lot off - after paying my bills i've around £50 a month of unallocated cash left over (joys of working for the NHS) - I've stashed 2 months away now, but if i'm looking at not spending anything until march next year to get to hear a few albums properly it's unlikely to fly...
 
TheBigYin said:
I know HiFi kit was never cheap per-se, and its always easier spending other peoples money than your own, but I did say my budget was ideally under £150 - now, tell me if I'm being unrealistic with that please, and I'll get everything working and flog the lot off - after paying my bills i've around £50 a month of unallocated cash left over (joys of working for the NHS) - I've stashed 2 months away now, but if i'm looking at not spending anything until march next year to get to hear a few albums properly it's unlikely to fly...
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The only reasonable alternative that is within budget is a single input class D amp that Amazon have. I have one. It's actually surprisingly good considering the price. That's £90 with the power supply for it.


Won't be any good for vinyl without a phono stage thingy as it's line level. Cheapest one of those is probably going to be a Behringer at just under £20. I have one of those as well. Again surprisingly good considering the price of it.



So I'd think you could get vinyl up and running for £110 ish.

Tapes you wouldn't need anything extra so just under £100.
 
Another vote for a trip to Richer Sounds - or at least a look at their website to see what their offerings are!
 
I am an Admin and member of quite a few FB groups and see this question all the time and its allways a money pit as one part gets fixed and the next one goes pop etc.
my ten pence forget the TT and the tape decks for a while and concentrate on getting a digital setup going and enjoy the music, consider a set of active speakers as well
 
Mr Bump said:
forget the TT and the tape decks for a while and concentrate on getting a digital setup going and enjoy the music, consider a set of active speakers as well
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main reason for wanting the kit at all is to get the TT working, so I can listen to the boxes of albums i've got that were from independent labels that i've been unable to get hold of in digital format - certainly never even made it to being pressed on CD's

If I was going to be restricted to listening to digital media honestly I doubt i'd bother.
 
Something like THIS might be an answer.
 
I went through this a while ago when my Arcam amps dials became very crackly again and didn't respond to the usual cleaning fluid I'd been using over the years. I was really disappointed most of the UK makes from years back seemed to have melted away or if they're still in existence exist in name only on Chinese made stuff. I ended up getting an Exposure, made in the UK and it's wonderful. Over your budget though. Maybe just a bit.
 
TheBigYin said:
main reason for wanting the kit at all is to get the TT working, so I can listen to the boxes of albums i've got that were from independent labels that i've been unable to get hold of in digital format - certainly never even made it to being pressed on CD's

If I was going to be restricted to listening to digital media honestly I doubt i'd bother.
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fair enough but you didn't make that clear in your post
in that case i would buy a new TT as you say the motor is shot, I suspect the cartridge also (when was it replaced) and then look at a newer amp
but your budget again just isn't going to cut it, i suspect at least £200 for a basic TT and same again for the amp but also what are the speakers like after 2 decades in storage?
 
yeah - i'm definitely getting that this is going to be a "no fly".

might as well get shot of it all - less for the house clearance people to deal with when I fall off my perch.

Sometimes it's just hard to admit there's things that aren't going to happen any more. One more for the big list of hobbies that I used to have... bit like photography really.
 
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TheBigYin said:
yeah - i'm definitely getting that this is going to be a "no fly".

might as well get shot of it all - less for the house clearance people to deal with when I fall off my perch.

Sometimes it's just hard to admit there's things that aren't going to happen any more. One more for the big list of hobbies that I used to have... bit like photography really.
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old kit is just not feasible to repair anymore unless you have serious skills and a lot of time

i mean somethinke like this below will get you running and it has a line level output so you dont need a phone stage just literally any old amp

www.richersounds.com

Denon DP-29F (Silver)

Shop for Denon DP-29F (Silver) Belt-Driven Analogue Turntable with Richer Sounds for expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed
www.richersounds.com www.richersounds.com

with this amp its £300 all in (ish) and if your wires and speakers are ok?

www.richersounds.com

Tangent Ampster BT II

Shop for Tangent Ampster BT MkII Stereo Amplifier with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed
www.richersounds.com www.richersounds.com
 
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A slightly left field idea if you want to listen to music...

Download Spotify or Tidal to your phone / tablet / laptop / PC and get headphones or earphones, wired or bluetooth.

There are free, with ads I think, versions of those aps. I have paid version of tidal on phone, tablet and PC.
 
simon ess said:
A slightly left field idea if you want to listen to music...

Download Spotify or Tidal to your phone / tablet / laptop / PC and get headphones or earphones, wired or bluetooth.

There are free, with ads I think, versions of those aps. I have paid version of tidal on phone, tablet and PC.
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I rather suspect it's the *quality* of listening to music that's important, rather than just having some background music going. If you've had good hifi and want that experience again then nothing else will do.
 
Well, it's certainly better than no music at all and I think the quality through even half decent headphones might surprise you.

Also, I stream from my tablet through a reasonable DAC into my high end amp and speakers. It's indistiguishable from CD.

I know many people don't want to hear that, but that's up to them.

Edit to add. If you can borrow a set of headphones it'll cost nothing to try.
 
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HIFi will be one of the last things I give up.

Have you had a look on Richersounds website?

Even one of those mini systems would be better than nothing. I bought my ex one years ago and it was descent enough. You can get one of those including a turntable for between £100-£200 but it'd be an idea to try and get one with plugs on the back so you could add better separates later if you want to.
 
simon ess said:
Well, it's certainly better than no music at all and I think the quality through even half decent headphones might surprise you.

Also, I stream from my tablet through a reasonable DAC into my high end amp and speakers. It's indistiguishable from CD.

I know many people don't want to hear that, but that's up to them.

Edit to add. If you can borrow a set of headphones it'll cost nothing to try.
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Simon, it wasn't a dig at you personally. But the OP is wanting to play LPs, which sound nothing like CDs even through mediocre kit, and from his description it's this experience that he wants again.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Simon, it wasn't a dig at you personally. But the OP is wanting to play LPs, which sound nothing like CDs even through mediocre kit, and from his description it's this experience that he wants again.
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Sorry, I know it wasn't but my post does come across as slightly terse, admitted.

I made the suggestion because I thought, reading the BY's posts, that we had gone beyond that and were facing the prospect of no music at all.
 
This is the post I refer to.
TheBigYin said:
yeah - i'm definitely getting that this is going to be a "no fly".

might as well get shot of it all - less for the house clearance people to deal with when I fall off my perch.

Sometimes it's just hard to admit there's things that aren't going to happen any more. One more for the big list of hobbies that I used to have... bit like photography really.
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All this talk of hifi makes me want to see if I can resurrect my old system. :p
 
Just while I'm on a roll, and I'll shut up after this, promise....

...If the TT motor rumble is cured I still say a Yamaha AS500 is the answer.

Great quality, reliable, built in phono. They regularly appear on e-bay for around £175 or best offer.
 
simon ess said:
Do it!
(y)
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I'm not sure where the bits are right now. No turntable or tape decks (or are there.... must check the loft when the wasps have died) there was a half-decent Yamaha amp and a couple of sets of speakers (Pioneer and Gales). At one time I was running it out of the PC with a semi-decent sound card, but the audio in the current machine is just 'adequate'.
 
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These days, my ears certainly aren't up to hearing a difference between CDs and vinyl! My MP3 player has a decent GE so I have it set to boost my most lost frequencies.
 
well - small update time...

the "extended run in" and machine oil treatment wasn't 100% - while it wasn't actually audibly "knocking" if i put my finger on the motor body I could still feel a rhythmic pulse at the same speed as the knock was.

So, nothing much to lose - opened the motor with the aid of a couple of ancient texts from the internet, cleaned the internals of the motor can, and - here's where crossovers to other hobbies come in handy - removed the entire rotor from its mounts and chucked it up in my watchmakers lathe. Polished the spindle where it passed through its mount bushings with a little jewellers rouge to a mirror surface, and checked the bushings for undue "slop" after cleaning - mount bushings seemed to be either brass or phosphor bronze, and i couldn't detect any undue play or grooving under the high magnification loupe, so gave them the lightest touch with an appropriately sized smoothing broach - watch and clockmaking tools are so handy for fine work like this. Another polish of the spindles, re-lube the lower bushing that's sealed into the motor can with some horrendously expensive watchmaking lube, and re-assemble with a drop of 5 weight oil in the upper, accessible bushing. Soldered up the cables, switched on, and - Smooth as a freshly Greased Guillemot, Silent as an Angels Fart.

Tested signal continuity on all the cabling from the AR arm right the way out, and no issues there - A&R P77 looks ok under the USB Microscope, stylus wise...

Spoke to a mate who's still into his HiFi and who's currently got a Rega P3 in his system, and he said to come over tonight and bring the AR, drop it into his system and see if there's any issues... This could well be make or break I guess - if the Turntable works as it should, then I've got a good source - only worry is how the years have served the P77 internally really - worried if theres any internal rubber that could have perished for example. If not, replacement could still very well consume my current budget :( but let's not worry about that for now - hopefully I'll get to hear my turntable this evening :)

Then I guess I get the soldering iron out, order a pile of capacitors from somewhere, and refurbish the bloody amplifier.
 
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simon ess said:
Sorry, I know it wasn't but my post does come across as slightly terse, admitted.

I made the suggestion because I thought, reading the BY's posts, that we had gone beyond that and were facing the prospect of no music at all.
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no, definitely not "no music at all" - just no much chance of getting to hear, in decent quality, a whole bunch of ancient bands no b****r's heard of, that had one album, self produced, and which sold maybe 200 units.

I've got a unspectacular cd/radio playing micro system in the living room with a bluetooth reciever wired to the aux, so I can play music off my phone as well - that's wired to the Misson's actually and they still work pretty well from what I can tell - though in all honesty, the little micro system isn't really up to pushing them all that hard...

as Toni said - what I'm really wanting is that full on Analog LP experience that I had back in the day - even in the 1980's my turntable setup was getting on for a months average salary on it's own, so I was quite "invested" in it - and with around 800 or so LPs in pretty good order, and maybe another 150 that have a bit of "snap crackle and pop" going on, I really want things to work...
 
Any car boot sales locally? You can sometimes pick up all sorts of interesting gear at them. A side hustle refurbing old amps, using them for a while then selling them on at a profit might be an interesting way of earning money and spending quality time with the record collection.
 
srichards said:
A side hustle refurbing old amps, using them for a while then selling them on at a profit might be an interesting way of earning money and spending quality time with the record collection.
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100% agree.

There's a real demand for good vintage hifi kit of all sorts.
 
best bit about amps of a certain age is that there's no custom ic's in there - while ever its discrete components you're in with a chance of effecting a repair.

I'm not worried about re-capping stuff, or removing the pot's sticking them in the ultrasonic to clean em up and re-fitting - that sort of stuff - but anything where it needs dedicated psu's and silly-scopes gets a bit beyond me...
 
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TheBigYin said:
best bit about amps of a certain age is that there's no custom ic's in there - while ever its discrete components you're in with a chance of effecting a repair.

I'm not worried about re-capping stuff, or removing the pot's sticking them in the ultrasonic to clean em up and re-fitting - that sort of stuff - but anything where it needs dedicated psu's and silly-scopes gets a bit beyond me...
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at the end of the day it is your call repair or replace, personally repair is just uneconomical based on the age and condition of your kit but hey ho
loads of reasonable kit out there lightly used
 
Mr Bump said:
loads of reasonable kit out there lightly used
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that was the initial though behind this thread - that somoene who's knowledge of hifi that didn't stop dead at 1990 might be able to come up with something that's a tad newer, and still repairable (ie no custom IC's and stuff to run displays or remore controls, or DAC's... just a plain old buttons and knobs preamp/power amp.

Sadly, only the Yamaha AS500 seems to have been mentioned so far...


simon ess said:
There's a real demand for good vintage hifi kit of all sorts.
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I know, I'm one of the people demanding at least one bit... :D
 
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