Advice needed please: Larger softbox vs smaller softbox closer to the subject?

TimSandhu

Suspended / Banned
Messages
458
Name
Tim
Edit My Images
No
Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on a lighting vs space issue that is driving me crazy and was hoping that some of you chaps could offer some advice before I fork out on some softboxes.

My question is this - Can I achieve the same quality of wrap-around light with a smaller light source (70cm vs 100cm square) that is moved closer to the subject? My initial thoughts are that yes I can, but I'm just throwing this out there in case I'm missing something.

Assume that light output is adjusted accordingly and that the softboxes are of the same shape and brand.

Thank you.
 
You have to consider the drop off - smaller light sources wont cover the same spread on the body - might be great for head shots, but not full length. Also it might be fine with one subject, but not work with two or more.
 
Thanks Dade - And I suppose I can also mask/flag a larger slight source if needed. It was just my working space isn't very wide.
 
Whilst you can draw a simple diagram 'proving' that a smaller softbox closer is the same as a larger one further away (simple maths) in practical use things are a bit different.

And a smaller softbox is really only good for headshots, a larger one will give you some flexibility for wider shots, if the room allows.

But really I don't know how much space you have, and what you describe as 'isn't very wide' might be plenty. But as a rule noob's tend to put lights too far away.

What lights are you looking at @TimSandhu ?
 
The geometry might say that they're going to look the same/similar but one obvious difference is that the front to back gradient (the fall off) will be steeper when using the smaller softbox closer to the subject.
 
All of the above answers are correct.
The theory is that both the fall off of light and the reduction in the effective size of the light source are governed by the Inverse Square Law.
What this means in practice is that every time you double the distance from light source to subject, two things happen:
1. Only a quarter of the light reaches the subject
2. The effective size of the light source is reduced to a quarter.

Let's go into a bit of detail here...
1. At a distance of 3' if the correct exposure is at f/11 then at a distance of 6' it will be f/5.6 (roughly). Not in itself a problem, use a higher ISO setting or turn the power up if you want to use f/11. BUT as @Canon Bob says, the fall off of light will be different, at a distance of 3' the light fall off between say the nose and the ears will be much greater than at 6', simply because although the distance between these two parts of the subject are a constant, changing the distance means that the ratio of change has varied - let's call that distance 1' - at a distance of 3' the light travels 3' to the nose and 4' to the ears, so a difference of 25% in travel distance, at a distance of 6' the light travels 6' to the nose and 7' to the ears, so a difference of 12.5% in travel distance.
2. if the softbox measures 100x100cm, and if we take a distance of 3' as a starting point, at a distance of 6' the effective size will be 25 x 25cm, so won't really act as a softbox at all - one of the major qualities of a softbox is that it is generally larger than the subject that it lights, so the light hits the subject not just from the front but from all sorts of other directions too, the so-called wraparound effect. Obviously, the larger the softbox and the closer it is to the subject, the further the light from the edges of the softbox have to travel, so the light quality on, say, the sides of the face is different to that on the front of the face, i.e. the lighting power is less on the sides, and is generally more pleasing. If the softbox isn't big enough, or is too far away, that effect is lost. As a general rule, if the distance from softbox to subject is greater than the diagonal measurement of the softbox, it can't produce "softbox lighting". That statement isn't subjective, it's basic physics.

That's the theory. There are practical considerations too of course. Space is one consideration, and don't forget ceiling height, because typically, a softbox is mounted high and if you don't have enough ceiling height then you won't be able to get the best results from it. And sometimes, a large softbox close to the subject simply gets in the way physically, leaving just two possible solutions - use an even larger one from a bit further away, or use a smaller one and use post processing to mimic the effect of a larger one.
In a perfect world, you'll have several softboxes of different sizes and different shapes, even in a large professional studio with lots of lighting power. In a small studio, this becomes even more important. But, with care, knowledge and time, you can to some extent replace equipment with knowledge.

Yes, you can mask a large softbox to make it smaller, if you have the space, but you will lose a lot of flash power doing so.
 
IME large modifiers in a small space are a right royal pain in the hoozit to work around.

A good way to get a large light source in a small space is to bounce the light off a white v flat.

And as others have said - fall off is an issue. A large modifier far away will light the background too unless gridded and used from the side.

I also like strip boxes. Long enough for full length, good for drama and less deep than most large softboxes. Then you can use them horizontally or at an angle when you need to. Gridding them tends to be more effective than with a large softbox. However, a stripbox will be considerably narrower (i.e. less soft in that direction) than a 70cm softbox.
 
Thank you all for the replies and detailed responses - exactly what I was after.

But really I don't know how much space you have, and what you describe as 'isn't very wide' might be plenty. But as a rule noob's tend to put lights too far away.

What lights are you looking at @TimSandhu ?

Phil, I already have a couple of 500 w/s lights. Which I have used on location to illuminate large areas (usually with a reflector bouncing off walls/ceiling). This post was mainly about modifiers for learning portraiture in my confined space of 2.4m x 6m - confined in width at any rate. I've shot mainly with small flashes and rarely in a tight spot with larger mods. As you can see, even a 100cm softbox may get in the way for anything more than 3/4 depending on where I position it. I think the height is around 8'.
 
Thank you all for the replies and detailed responses - exactly what I was after.

Phil, I already have a couple of 500 w/s lights. Which I have used on location to illuminate large areas (usually with a reflector bouncing off walls/ceiling). This post was mainly about modifiers for learning portraiture in my confined space of 2.4m x 6m - confined in width at any rate. I've shot mainly with small flashes and rarely in a tight spot with larger mods. As you can see, even a 100cm softbox may get in the way for anything more than 3/4 depending on where I position it. I think the height is around 8'.

With that little height and width I definitely wouldn't want a large softbox.

@Sir SR does great things in a small space, take a look at his setup here: https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/lastolite-hilite.641963/#post-7659524
 
Back
Top