Beginner A cheap body with an expensive lens

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Dadofsam

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Sam
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After an extended hiatus, and admittedly a total reliance on my phone for photos, I feel it’s time to explore a ‘proper’ camera set up again.
This is truly prompted by an upcoming trip to Borneo, but also general life events that mean I want to capture more of the special moments that happen around me.
With all that said I started down the absolute rabbit hole of what to get (I previously had a RX100 iii)

Unfortunately the RX100iii zoom isn’t long enough for my upcoming trip (think orangutang in trees) so I narrowed down to some potential options (RX100 vii, a6400/100, RX10iv), which I recognise differ quite a lot, but ultimately bought me to a bigger question…

Should I just go for a cheap body, and spend more on the lens, even as extreme as a Nex7 with a Sony 18-110 (albeit a bit expensive and maybe not long enough)

What is the general consensus, will I just get frustrated with a cheaper body and its lack of quality AF etc?
 
I've been using AF cameras since the 1980s, and the stuff from the last 10 years is near miraculous. Since the lens is the part with greatest effect on image quality, having a better lens makes sense.

However it also sounds like you want versatility. You could try something like the A6400 plus FE mount Tamron 28-200, or perhaps the Sony 70-350 plus a wider kit zoom. Both those lenses are considered decent.
 
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If your options started with a high end compact, I’m guessing convenience and size matters a great deal.
I’d look at an M43 setup, otherwise you risk buying something you resent carrying around.
 
How about a bridge camera, compact and has a decent zoom.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I've been using AF cameras since the 1980s, and the stuff from the last 10 years is near miraculous. Since the lens is the part with greatest effect on image quality, having a better lens makes sense.

However it also sounds like you want versatility. You could try something like the A6400 plus FE mount Tamron 28-200, or perhaps the Sony 70-350 plus a wider kit zoom. Both those lenses are considered decent.
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Thanks - I think this aligns with my thinking.
I’m used to portability but know for better quality / flexibility I’m going to have to make a compromise somewhere
 
Phil V said:
If your options started with a high end compact, I’m guessing convenience and size matters a great deal.
I’d look at an M43 setup, otherwise you risk buying something you resent carrying around.
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Would this be something like an OM Systems OM-5?
I think I need to research M43 more as I hadn’t considered them before as fell down the trap of considering just Sony as it’s what I know
 
in answer to your original question, I would stick somewhere in the middle and try and balance the lens/body. 110mm on Sony APS-C will not be long enough for your needs. I would look for at least 200mm if not 300mm.

Micro4/3 is a good shout, could get a E-M1 mkii and 12-200 for your budget. Sony is likely to be a bit more money, I’d recommend at least an A6400, could pair with a 18-200 (although not the best lens) or for more money (and a much better setup) a 70-350 and a wider lens.
 
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I agree with Phil, the m43 route may be the better option. for example a 100-300mm lens with an M43 camera is the same as a 200-600mm lens in a full frame camera but half the weight and size. After more years than I can remember with Nikon I took this route with the Panasonic G9 to start with, then added the G9ii later version.
 
Dadofsam said:
Limited at around £1k but some flex in that
I kid myself saying if it doesn’t work out, or I don’t fall in love with it I can always sell it on
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Then I would agree with the M43 idea.
You could get a low count G9 for around £400, combined with a 14-140 and a 100-300 (both mk 2 then you have Power OIS with dual stabilisation) you would have FFeq of 28-600mm that along with spare batteries etc can easily be carried in a smallish shoulder bag, then if you don't need the long lens on a day, the 14-140 would give you 28-280 FFeq and with the camera fits in a small dSLR bag, that is what I carry round every day.

Fantastic quality for the price and size, have a look on youtube etc for what people say about the G9, and look on DPREVIEW for the review and sample images
 
Of course there is another very good option Now retailing at under £1000. one I used a lot on a recent trip to Iceland.
Don't laugh and I will tell you why.
That is the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder,and yes you can extract stills direct from it via the thumb nail menu. even down to individual frames
OK why make this suggestion? first of all no need for carrying extra lenses -mm range will go up to 600mm- no need for ND filters they are built in- dual SD slots-etc etc.
here is mine fully loaded with extras

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiWwjGVQ-kg


Ideal for wildlife far better that any camera in my opinion.think of being able to zoom in like this with no lens change

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAXCze22-9o

stripped down> no worry about loosing end caps either.

xxx.jpg
 
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Sam
I have travelled to many countries and always taken a camcorder plus a small camera. one reason for going to Iceland and that area of the world was to see puffins. The time we were there the birds were out at sea food hunting. My wife and i were in a group of about 20 all of which had c.ameras
Several complaints about not being able to photograph them until I showed my video. the interest I stirred up when I showed what I had captured on video made them decide this was something else.

without that camcorder i stood no chance just like the rest
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOohLTqNJNI

so what yo may well ask. well this is the distance they were out at sea ,yes they are in the video below
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lrqT0125Zk

this may well give some idea of what this camcorder can do that cameras can't,

on some forums I got complaimts about movement. They had forgotter things called waves the sea makes.And at that distance I consider I was extremely lucky to get any sort of video hand held
 
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Thank you all for your responses!

Fortunately I enjoy armchair research and my YouTube recommendations have now shifted from hifi to cameras!

It does feel like a M43 is the best middle ground, and maybe more importantly, the least likely to frustrate me!

My sense is that at certain price point I’m looking at (body around £400) they become similar in feature set, and actually ergonomics, brand loyalty, and general internet knowledge/support are the differentiators as lens-wise there is enough choice and flex to not feel like I’m tied to a manufacturer (although I have seen the importance of matching brands for IS Sync on some long lenses)

Now, to start my hunt and get my hands on some, fortunately I have a few months until I need my final choice ‘in hand’!
 
Whilst you say I can extract still from the thumbnails - why do I now feel like I also need a good camcorder alongside a camera!

Off to google I go to learn some more, thank you for sharing the samples and providing a different view
 
Not sure about prices, but didnt someone just launch a new superzoom compact/bridge camera ? Cant remember who now though.
 
Nikon just did an upgrade to their top bridge camera. But it has a tiny sensor. Things in trees are dark. It is probably on the wrong side of the low light performance v's reach question. The older model will probably crash in price but I doubt it would do the job you want.

Micro 4/3 or APSC- it is a lot cheaper to buy a crop camera and a good lens than a full frame camera and a much longer lens. If you can get something compatible with an older 300mm prime (they are quite long but sometimes not heavy) then you would get a lot of reach and great resolution. Don't forget a tripod.
 
Erty said:
Nikon just did an upgrade to their top bridge camera. But it has a tiny sensor. Things in trees are dark. It is probably on the wrong side of the low light performance v's reach question. The older model will probably crash in price but I doubt it would do the job you want.

Micro 4/3 or APSC- it is a lot cheaper to buy a crop camera and a good lens than a full frame camera and a much longer lens. If you can get something compatible with an older 300mm prime (they are quite long but sometimes not heavy) then you would get a lot of reach and great resolution. Don't forget a tripod.
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Definitely hadn’t put a tripod into my imaginary basket so far - thanks for the reminder
Speaking of I also hadn’t even considered memory cards - whilst I have plenty of MicroSD from GoPro, Drones etc I realise I need a ‘proper’ card with the right write speeds etc
Truly amateur hour over here, really appreciate everyone’s help - very much looking forward to sharing some images soon and learning how to improve / refine
 
Dadofsam said:
Definitely hadn’t put a tripod into my imaginary basket so far
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TBH it's not something I'd bother withh unless you plan taking longer exposure shots or feel you need to be slowed down as you compose pictures. They're useful, but only in specific situations.
 
ancient_mariner said:
TBH it's not something I'd bother withh unless you plan taking longer exposure shots or feel you need to be slowed down as you compose pictures. They're useful, but only in specific situations.
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I never carry one with the G9 and 100-400 lens, the only time I use one with a long lens is if I want to hold the camera on one point for a very long time waiting for something.
 
ancient_mariner said:
TBH it's not something I'd bother withh unless you plan taking longer exposure shots or feel you need to be slowed down as you compose pictures. They're useful, but only in specific situations.
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Sangoma said:
I never carry one with the G9 and 100-400 lens, the only time I use one with a long lens is if I want to hold the camera on one point for a very long time waiting for something.
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I don’t envisage long expires yet so will give it a pass
Mentioned previously, but have now seen the benefit of IS Sync so will likely stick to the same manufacturer for body and lens and negate some of the need for a tripod
 
Olympus em1 mk3 + Olympus 75-300. From WEX or MPB for £8-900.
The mk3 is basically the same as the om5. Got some good features. Hand held hi-res and ND filters and good IBIS.
 
I'm new here but I happen just to have bought some used kit, so FWIW...

My wife who decades ago used a K1000 wants to get back into photography. She later liked using an early Pentax DSLR I had before we had a house fire and asked me a couple of weeks ago to look for something similar in handling to that. She took one look at my D750 and pronounced it far too big. Her hands are small and also somewhat arthritic now and she doesn't want big, or heavy. She's not a gear fanatic so I looked for a smaller lighter SLR with a do-everything lens.

To the point - I bought a 'like new' Nikon D5500 and a 'excellent'AF-S DX Nikkor 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR for £438 from MPB. On impulse I added an 'excellent' AF-P DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR because it was £41! - although very light and plasticky it's an excellent lens. Total under £500 delivered.

I am shocked at how good this is with the 18-140 (28-210 in old money).

The 18-140 is not silly-heavy at 490g but she just finds it less comfortable than the 'standard' zoom. I could probably have saved the £130 or so on the 140 but I'm happy to own it and I can imagine borrowing it, and the camera, myself! The 18-55 of course does nothing that the 18-140 won't do, but it's not wasted as she's chosen it as her walkabout.

Point being this camera at 420g is over 200g lighter than e.g. the G9, and smaller, In fact the D5500 + the 18-55 together weigh about the same as the G9 body. Of course DX lenses in general are going the be heavier than 4/3.

Anyway, there it is. At £480 plus SD card, decent strap and case, protection filters we're still well under £1000 leaving enough for a tripod and flash had we needed them.
 
John_M said:
I'm new here but I happen just to have bought some used kit, so FWIW...

My wife who decades ago used a K1000 wants to get back into photography. She later liked using an early Pentax DSLR I had before we had a house fire and asked me a couple of weeks ago to look for something similar in handling to that. She took one look at my D750 and pronounced it far too big. Her hands are small and also somewhat arthritic now and she doesn't want big, or heavy. She's not a gear fanatic so I looked for a smaller lighter SLR with a do-everything lens.

To the point - I bought a 'like new' Nikon D5500 and a 'excellent'AF-S DX Nikkor 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR for £438 from MPB. On impulse I added an 'excellent' AF-P DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR because it was £41! - although very light and plasticky it's an excellent lens. Total under £500 delivered.

I am shocked at how good this is with the 18-140 (28-210 in old money).

The 18-140 is not silly-heavy at 490g but she just finds it less comfortable than the 'standard' zoom. I could probably have saved the £130 or so on the 140 but I'm happy to own it and I can imagine borrowing it, and the camera, myself! The 18-55 of course does nothing that the 18-140 won't do, but it's not wasted as she's chosen it as her walkabout.

Point being this camera at 420g is over 200g lighter than e.g. the G9, and smaller, In fact the D5500 + the 18-55 together weigh about the same as the G9 body. Of course DX lenses in general are going the be heavier than 4/3.

Anyway, there it is. At £480 plus SD card, decent strap and case, protection filters we're still well under £1000 leaving enough for a tripod and flash had we needed them.
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Glad you found something suitable for her, though I don't follow the comparison with the G9 which is probably the heaviest and largest M43, not really one that anyone would suggest reading her needs.
My wife has small hands, and prefers the RF shape, her favourite (after her phone :) ) is a GX7, which is just over 500g with the kit lens, and has IBIS which is a big plus. She would never use a Canon dSLR, never felt comfortable for her. Everyone is different.

But it is not a dSLR :)
 
For similar reasons of size and weight we bought my wife an Olympus E-M10 plus pancake zoom a few years ago. The Panasonic superzoom wasn't producing good pics and this was a fraction bigger and heavier, but only a little. The outfit goes in a handbag conveniently.
 
Sangoma said:
Glad you found something suitable for her, though I don't follow the comparison with the G9 which is probably the heaviest and largest M43, not really one that anyone would suggest reading her needs.
My wife has small hands, and prefers the RF shape, her favourite (after her phone :) ) is a GX7, which is just over 500g with the kit lens, and has IBIS which is a big plus. She would never use a Canon dSLR, never felt comfortable for her. Everyone is different.

But it is not a dSLR :)
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I only looked at that comparison because the quite logical suggestion of 4/3 had been made in the thread...not a dig in any way, and I apologise if I appeared to be argumentative:) I'm not sufficiently familiar with 4/3 to have realised I had chosen a poor example.

Frankly I was just surprised to find how small and light the Nikon felt when it came, despite having looked at the specs.

You make another good point - I should probably have suggested that herself handled a G7 (not a GX7) even though it isn't a DSLR, as we have access to one. I gave my daughter a G7 a few years ago and she has done good things with it - the G7 only sneaks under the D5500's weight by 10g and is near enough the same size. I'm also amazed to see the second hand values of the best used G7 + 45-150 with MPB are more than I paid for them new, in 2018, with the 14-42 as well!
 
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John_M said:
I only looked at that comparison because the quite logical suggestion of 4/3 had been made in the thread...not a dig in any way, and I apologise if I appeared to be argumentative:) I'm not sufficiently familiar with 4/3 to have realised I had chosen a poor example.

Frankly I was just surprised to find how small and light the Nikon felt when it came, despite having looked at the specs.

You make another good point - I should probably have suggested that herself handled a G7 (not a GX7) even though it isn't a DSLR, as we have access to one. I gave my daughter a G7 a few years ago and she has done good things with it - the G7 only sneaks under the D5500's weight by 10g and is near enough the same size. I'm also amazed to see the second hand values of the best used G7 + 45-150 with MPB are more than I paid for them new, in 2018, with the 14-42 as well!
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Yes, I had a G7 (surprised you haven't been reminded about shutter shock yet) and it worked well, my son took it over and it worked well for him, until he took over my G80, then the G7 went.
Strangely, his school uses Nikon, but he always takes his Panasonic in, as the Nikons "don't take clear pictures" :) Obviously the way he holds it. It does say again though that what works for you is the right one.

I'm sure the Nikon will do her well
 
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