580 EX. Bounced using catchlight card or diffuser?

FlyTVR

FlyTVR

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Just wondering. When using the 580EX II (or similar) do you bounce the flash making use of the built in card or have you purchased an additional diffuser?

I know ceiling height / ceiling surface, obstructions etc may have an impact on your decision, but nevertheless I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
 
I'd be interested to know more about this too.

I use the little card if i'm bouncing, I think i'm correct in saying it gives you 'catch-lights' but does it actually throw any light forwards? Never entirely sure when i'm supposed to use that plastic flip down cover... is that just for bouncing?
 
Plastic thingy is a wide card (extends to something like 14mm) - I believe.

The catch-light card is generally used with the flash in fully upright position (and bouncing).

Any more thoughts chaps?
 
The little white card, in my experience, just gives a touch of catchlight when used in reasonable light, whether or not the light is bounced from a ceiling or outdoors. I think it just throws sufficient light forward for the catchlights. Its not ideal, but better than nowt sometimes.

When bouncing light, I prefer not to use an additional diffuser. I think that just makes the flash output greater. However, sometimes it works, and often when you can't bounce the light outdoors but want to fill flash your subject.

Go and experiment with it.
 
Photodiva said:
The little white card, in my experience, just gives a touch of catchlight when used in reasonable light, whether or not the light is bounced from a ceiling or outdoors. I think it just throws sufficient light forward for the catchlights. Its not ideal, but better than nowt sometimes.

When bouncing light, I prefer not to use an additional diffuser. I think that just makes the flash output greater. However, sometimes it works, and often when you can't bounce the light outdoors but want to fill flash your subject.

Go and experiment with it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I thought.

I'm trying to decide if I need to buy a diffuser or not. So experimentation is catch 22. I guess I'll just purchase one and play. Of course, that will then lead onto "Which diffuser....."
 
I bought a diffuser off Ebay via HK much cheaper than I could have got it at Jessops. I hardly use it but its good to have. Try using some tracing paper folded into a shape and taping it. The best bounce flash I have used is the DIY one you make from card and attach to the flash with elastic bands. Looks a bit weird, but works.
http://www.themoment2cherish.com/DIY-Bounce-Card/
 
If the flash is pointing upwards...

With the built-in bounce card, most of the light will miss it and go upwards.

With a stofen omni-bounce type of diffuser the light will spread upwards and horizontally, all round. Even when pointing upwards, with a 580EX flash, it will through a lot of light forward. If I am using one, and there is a low white ceiling, I find I am pointing the flash backwards to avoid bleaching on people's faces.

With a stofen diffuser attached the flash effectively becomes similar to having a naked light bulb attached to your camera.

I have a stofen one, but I'd guess the cheaper ones work just the same.
 
The wide-angle diffuser and the pull-out bounce-card are for completely different things.

The diffuser panel spreads the light wide, so it will cover a wide-angle lens. That's it's primary purpose.

The bounce-card, high-light panel or whatever you want to call it, is to provide fill-in with bounce flash. The effect is very similar to using a Stofen.

Most of these kind of attachments - bounce-card, Stofen, Fong, Lambency etc - work in the same way and the effect you get has more to do with the bounce surface, ie the ceiling, than it has to do with the diffuser. For example, if you use them outside where there is no bounce surface, they either do very little or nothing at all - except waste light.

They work by directing most of the light upwards (or all around) where the light spreads over a wide area and bounces down as much softer light - the bigger the light area, the softer the shadows. This takes a lot of power, which is why about 80% of the flash goes up there.

While this looks far better than direct on-camera flash, the light coming from above casts shadows under eyes and chins and is greatly improved with a dash of fill-in light from the camera position. It brightens faces, lightens shadows, and puts a sparkle in the eyes - and that's what the bounce-card does, sends a bit of fill-light forward. It only needs to be small, and the ratio of bounce to fill will be about right for a normal sized room with a normal white ceiling at normal people-shooting distances.

Try it. Try direct on-camera flash, try bounce only, then try the bounce card and see the difference. The auto-TTL system will sort the exposure. If you haven't got a pull-out bounce card, make one with a small piece of card and a rubber band, and point the flash gun straight up - that's all there is to it, but it really looks very good :thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
The wide-angle diffuser and the pull-out bounce-card are for completely different things.

The diffuser panel spreads the light wide, so it will cover a wide-angle lens. That's it's primary purpose.

The bounce-card, high-light panel or whatever you want to call it, is to provide fill-in with bounce flash. The effect is very similar to using a Stofen.

Most of these kind of attachments - bounce-card, Stofen, Fong, Lambency etc - work in the same way and the effect you get has more to do with the bounce surface, ie the ceiling, than it has to do with the diffuser. For example, if you use them outside where there is no bounce surface, they either do very little or nothing at all - except waste light.

They work by directing most of the light upwards (or all around) where the light spreads over a wide area and bounces down as much softer light - the bigger the light area, the softer the shadows. This takes a lot of power, which is why about 80% of the flash goes up there.

While this looks far better than direct on-camera flash, the light coming from above casts shadows under eyes and chins and is greatly improved with a dash of fill-in light from the camera position. It brightens faces, lightens shadows, and puts a sparkle in the eyes - and that's what the bounce-card does, sends a bit of fill-light forward. It only needs to be small, and the ratio of bounce to fill will be about right for a normal sized room with a normal white ceiling at normal people-shooting distances.

Try it. Try direct on-camera flash, try bounce only, then try the bounce card and see the difference. The auto-TTL system will sort the exposure. If you haven't got a pull-out bounce card, make one with a small piece of card and a rubber band, and point the flash gun straight up - that's all there is to it, but it really looks very good :thumbs:
Click to expand...

or buy a 7d and let the pop up handle fill with a 430ex in your other hand, a very very nifty feature

remember to gel the pop up if you're balancing to ambient though :bang:
 
david1701 said:
or buy a 7d and let the pop up handle fill with a 430ex in your other hand, a very very nifty feature

remember to gel the pop up if you're balancing to ambient though :bang:
Click to expand...

I'd never buy such a cheap camera. I mean - one that has a built in flash!!!! :lol: Only joking.

I love the way the 7d allows remote trigger out of the box. Nikon guys are of course thinking - "Don't all cameras do that?"
 
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