500mm + options for canon camera

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russdaz

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Got a delema, having the Canon 70-200mm and 1.4 plus 2xtc i have some good options to get 400mm from them.

Being a motorsport fan i find the above brill for cars at most circuits, how ever i keep finding myself stacking the tc's to gain 500mm at the bikes

Any-one tried using a 400mm f5.6 with a 1.4 tc? will it maintain AF? if so would the IQ on the 400mm be a worth while upgrade?

or maybe 300mm f4 with its IS would that work with a 2x tc? or a second hand f2.8 version?

or

Sigma 500mm f4.5?

Or forget the lens and continue to use the stacked tc option and get the 1d mk2n when the stacked imagines are like these

560mm
IMG_7492-vi.jpg


or any other options?
 
I have an EOS 1D MkIIN, and it will happily focus with a 400L, and the 1.4 and 2X piggybacked. AF is slightly slower, but it does work.

I believe that with one of the 1.6 crop bodies, it will AF with a 1.4, and possibly with a 2X, but not both.

Read more about it here: http://www.pbase.com/dougdarter/versatility
 
dougdarter said:
I believe that with one of the 1.6 crop bodies, it will AF with a 1.4, and possibly with a 2X, but not both.
Click to expand...
It depends on the TC and body. I have the 400mm, a Kenko 1.4x and a 30D and it doesnt AF unless you tape over the contacts on the TC.
A standard body is designed to kop out of AF if the max aperture is reported as being above F5.6, a Pro body will AF up to F8. The older Kenko TCs (and many cheap TCs) dont inform the body of their presence so the body continues to see a lens at f5.6 and trys to autofocus.

See link on FM
 
To add to the above, if you stack teleconvertors only one of them is reported to the body, I think the one closest to the lens. So if you use a 1.4x and 2x together with an f/4 lens then the camera will see it as being either f/5.6 or f/8 depending on the order in which you added them. Assuming of course you use ones which report their presence. Really it would be f/11 though.

Michael.
 
Some interesting info in this thread... 1120mm - hardcore!

The only thing I can add to the excellent info in this thread is that motorsport is a little more demanding that just being able to take a frame successully from a tripod.

The Canon 300mm f2.8 is a good solution but an expensive one and its chuffin HUGE! My friend now has one of these babies... it is lightning fast even with a 2x TC on it...

Once again its a price thing, there are very good solutions out there but serious money...
 
I've a 20D a 70-200, 2X and a 1.4X all canon.

I still get autofocus (sans sticky tape), tho I'm not supposed to ??, with all the lot in a stack, but it is painfully slow.

IQ isnt' too bad but at 400mm+ vibrations are a real menace.
 
lol mine is too old, it doesent have contacts, it has these slider things.

it only cost me a tenner though, and as they say you get what you pay for lol

are the newer ones better quality? I do lose soem image quality when I use it (its a soligor btw if that means anythign to anybody)
 
oldgit said:
I've a 20D a 70-200, 2X and a 1.4X all canon.

I still get autofocus (sans sticky tape), tho I'm not supposed to ??, with all the lot in a stack, but it is painfully slow.
Click to expand...

Because only one of the Extenders will register with the body it will either be seen as a 98-280 f/4 or a 140-400 f/5.6. Both of those are acceptable maximum apertures for the AF system.

Michael.
 
oldgit said:
I've a 20D a 70-200, 2X and a 1.4X all canon.

I still get autofocus (sans sticky tape), tho I'm not supposed to ??, with all the lot in a stack, but it is painfully slow.

IQ isnt' too bad but at 400mm+ vibrations are a real menace.
Click to expand...

The pic above is at 560mm using both canon tc's attached, f2.8 IS.

i aquire focus lock manuelly i find at that length its fast enough to hold lock.

I just want the best the image possible at that length, i know where i can get a 500mm Sigma for simular money as a 1d mk2nn that i was thinking of getting. The Cannon 300mm f2.8 is to much new, so is out of the equation unless i can find a second one in my budget.

I was wondering if the 300mm f4, would offer a signifcant improvement at 300- 420mm over the 200mm and the 400mm non IS and if it may work at 600mm all be it a tad slower.

I was also thinking more along the Canon 300mm IS as i believe its weather sealed to. If i went the canon 300 or 400mm mentioned in my original post i think id invest in another 30d body too.

The Sigma 120-300mm with tc's did cross my mind to, but didnt think it may as much of an improvement over my current setup with the 2 tc's stacked.

Any-one any experiance with the Sigma 500mm?

Weight is of no concern to me its IQ, may just have to work harding in the gym lol

Thanks for the input so far guys, and if anyone sees a good 300mm f2.8 cheapish let me know please lol
 
I currently have my mate's cast off 300mm F4 IS. Obviously if you whacked a 1.4x onto that you are exactly the same place as the 70x200 f2.8 with a 2x - well, a little bit further, particularly if you at a 1.6 crop factor.

Never tried the 2x on the F4, always assumed it would max it out for motorsport.

Like I said earlier, motorsport really needs fast AF... the 300mm f2.8 is fast! I think he paid 1400 quid for it second hand.

I really wouldnt bother with the extra body you are after if you are needing a long lens solution... I know we all imagine that our creativity is only impeded by our wallets, but thats not true...
 
I think your right, tbh i know which way i will be goin, i my current lenses are great for cars, but i find myself so often needing 500mm+ for the bikes, which quite a few pro's use, the differance in cost between the Sigma 500mm and the 1d mk2n is minimal from a supplier. The thing that let's the current setup down is the focus speed. Which i think would be improved on the new body as it can AF upto f8 without lose of speed?

If i am right the IS of the canon lens should alow simular shutters/exposures to the sigma F4?

So the choice is really 1d mk2n or Sigma 500mm f4 i think.
 
I have read that about 1D AF capabilities too, but never have had the luxury of testing that... yet!

Canon IS improves hand holdability by 2 stops i believe, so the rule of thum is that if you are reasonably good you can hand hold to 1/300 at 300mm, the IS will knock this down to errm 2 stops less than that 1/200? I am as wobbly as anything at found i can do 1/160 without too much grief on panning shots at 300mm with IS on (in mode 2).

It really is a godsend!
 
Thats the debate i am in now, tbh in most condtions i can shoot at slow speeds had lots of training at it.

Id be interested in if the 1d mk2n would focus the current setup as fast as the 500mm sigma, or 300mm f2.8 with 2xtc on the 30d.

If the 1d is fast enough id rather that then the len as it would produce better pics with th 200mm too?
 
I find the 1D MK2 n focuses my 500mm pretty damned rapido with either the 1.4X or 2X Canon TC's fitted. I'm not sure I notice any difference in speed at all between the two converters.

With both converters stacked AF is still maintained but much, much slower - still quite positive though if the light is reasonable and there's good detail to focus on. In poor light it tends to hunt a lot and without manual AF to get rough pre focus, I'm sure there'd be a heavy battery drain price to pay.
 
Thanks CT sounds like the 30d there then.

No funds for the 500mm canon, maybe Sigma 300mm f2.8 with a 2xtc coming up then, with a second 30d/20d coming then
 
Well the bigger the aperture to start with, the more light and the better AF I would have thought? I haven't tried stacking both converters on the70-200 2.8 yet.

The 20D/30D AF system is no slouch, but the 1D is substantially quicker. The difference in Servo AF Mode is very noticeable - with the 1D transitions in focus as you pan around are quite smooth and virtually seamless, whereas with the 20D there's a very slight delay giving a sort of step effect.
 
It would be nice to be able hire each one weekend, but theres no where here i can.

What do you think would be the best compromise?
 
Tbh Russ I think I'd opt for the best fastest glass every time if it's a question of priorities. The good glass will produce the goods on the cheapest entry level body and you'll really see a difference. Keep to big max apertures and you'll still be able to AF on your 30D with the converters.

The money spent on lenses is a far better investment than bodies in the long term too. ;)
 
That was what i was thinking to after the weekend just gone, i thought 400mm would be enough, but it aint really for the bikes.

So the choice is really the 500mm sigma (imported with the possibilities of import duties) or the 300mm f2.8 with 2xtc
 
CT said:
Well the bigger the aperture to start with, the more light and the better AF I would have thought? I haven't tried stacking both converters on the70-200 2.8 yet.
Click to expand...

Thats definitely the case... if you really want to start playing with piles of TC's for motorsport you need to have a lens that starts out at F2.8...

As I said before, just being able to take a pic of a static subject from a tripod after a bit of fiddling doesn't cut it when your target is a small sports bike doing 150+ mph!
 
russdaz said:
So the choice is really the 500mm sigma (imported with the possibilities of import duties) or the 300mm f2.8 with 2xtc
Click to expand...

I suggest good old One-Stop Digital for either... no customs grief there ;-)
 
russdaz said:
That was what i was thinking to after the weekend just gone, i thought 400mm would be enough, but it aint really for the bikes.

So the choice is really the 500mm sigma (imported with the possibilities of import duties) or the 300mm f2.8 with 2xtc
Click to expand...

The 300mm 2.8 is possibly the sharpest optic Canon makes and with the converter options becomes a very useful lens indeed. Unfortunately it comes at a ball busting price. :shrug:
 
And not forgetting a hernia inducing weight... lovely results tho (the pics, not the hernia!)
 
desantnik said:
I suggest good old One-Stop Digital for either... no customs grief there ;-)
Click to expand...

So how do the avoid them?

I know stacking converters isnt ideal, but the IQ of the 200mm IS at 500m out performaned the Sigma 50-500mm i had so i have just sold that.

Had a play with a 400mm f5.6 the IQ seemed much better and faster then the 200 with the 2xtc, and tested with the 1.4 TC it was still faster.

The differenace between the 200mm with 1.4tc to the 300mm wasnt a great deal, so thinking about what tracks are coming up in the next couple of months i think the 400mm will get the most use, so have plumbed for that. Will be looking to get the a 500mm very soon
 
CT said:
The 300mm 2.8 is possibly the sharpest optic Canon makes and with the converter options becomes a very useful lens indeed. Unfortunately it comes at a ball busting price. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Thats the ultimate lens i want if i find a good second hand option, if not it'll be the Sigma 500mm i think.

I'll make do with a 400mm 5.6 in the interim.
 
russdaz said:
So how do they (my edit to try to make sense of your post, hope i was right hehe) avoid them?
Click to expand...

Well, they guarantee to cover them if you get stung... quite simple really.

I fully agree with your findings on the lens combos though. Came to the same conclusions in the last week or so here - we are both chasing the same stuff here :D

I have been lucky in that I have a friend also chasing the same thing who has spent money to answer the questions so I kinda get a free ride on this one :lol:

Sadly, I know where the answer lies but I am never going there as I cannot justify that kind of money to take pics of motorbikes for fun. Might be different if I could imagine it was an investment in a business but its not a game I am good enough for nor does it pay anything like what I do for a job already ;-)

No, strictly amateur for fun for me :bonk:
 
desantnik said:
Well, they guarantee to cover them if you get stung... quite simple really.

I fully agree with your findings on the lens combos though. Came to the same conclusions in the last week or so here - we are both chasing the same stuff here :D

I have been lucky in that I have a friend also chasing the same thing who has spent money to answer the questions so I kinda get a free ride on this one :lol:

Sadly, I know where the answer lies but I am never going there as I cannot justify that kind of money to take pics of motorbikes for fun. Might be different if I could imagine it was an investment in a business but its not a game I am good enough for nor does it pay anything like what I do for a job already ;-)

No, strictly amateur for fun for me :bonk:
Click to expand...

I had wondered they might get some business my way then in a couple of months time.

For me its something that is turning to semi-pro kinda thing, i want to turn to a part-time hobby/job something that will cover my costs, then hopefully get a few wildlife stuff the sell to help fund futher upgrades. If i get the Sigma in a couple of months then that will be that for me until i mak some money back lol
 
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