500mm Choice

W

wooster

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,171
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi

I'm planning the purchase of an R5 - I actually had one delivered but my cashflow was complicated this month and I urgently needed funds for October so had to return it! Anyway, I'm hoping to get the resultant bonus from my money- juggling in October when I plan on buying the R5 again. One of the reasons I want the R5 is that I'm due to retire and want to spend my time developing my skills at shooting birds and I'm wondering if I should buy a better lens to help. I currently have a Canon 400mm F5.6L with a 1.4 EXII.

If my finances pan, out I'm considering going for a used 500mm f4L. The Mk1 comes up used at a reasonable price but I have a feeling I might not be happy with that knowing the IQ on the Mk2 is said to be a lot better. I'm looking for a lens that responds well to the 1.4EX and looking at comparisons, the big advantage of this lens, for me, is how well it does with extenders. I can rent the Mk2 to try it but not the Mk1 of course.

What would you advise? Would I regret the mk1? They are half the price of the mk2 used! I have a few weeks to consider but I'm wondering if my best bet is looking at a used 500 f4L mk2
 
Last edited:
None too sure but think I read a while back that the 500mm MK1 is no longer repairable due to no parts available???

If I have recalled that right then buying an 'out of service' older version carries some risk of "losing your money"???

PS maybe worth checking with Canon or perhaps Fixation in London.
 
Last edited:
Also, do bear in mind that the focus depth of field of a 500mm lens at f4 will be very thin (while less so on an APS-C camera than full frame). This is often an overlooked factor in super-telephoto lenses; more light and a higher shutter speed might be good, but a very thin DoF might be not so good in the real world, so careful consideration needs to be given to cost v 'advantage'. Couple that to a camera with a high resolution sensor that can emphasise any shortcomings in focus, camera shake, etc. and you could find you're pressing the delete button almost as often as the shutter button?
 
Last edited:
The mk1 500mm was a superb lens, with virtually no real world difference in IQ with its younger brother. However, as always, its not as simple as that!

As BB mentions above, there could be issues should you require a repair, which is a risk only you know if you're willing to take.

Then, moving onto other issues, if you use the mk3 converters, then the mk2 lens should offer you better AF. That's certainly true with how it responds with the 1dx line of cameras, and I'd assume the same would be for the mirrorless. This is due to the better electronics within the lens and converters.

The newer lens is also quite a bit lighter than its predecessor.

All told, if finances allow, you'd be far better going for the newer lens

Mike
 
Thank you all. Food for thought and good advice. I will consider all of these points. It looks very much like the Mk2 is a lot more likely but it all depends on ho my finances shape up.

From recent perusal of comparisons here it looks to me like although at basic use there's little difference the 500mm really pulls ahead with the extender x2 although not a major difference with the 1.4 EX so I'm a bit undecided now.

Thank you all
 
Last edited:
Actually looking at that comparison again apart from being a stop faster the 500mm isn't all that different looking from the 400. Hmmmm.....
 
The 400mm was always a quality lens, albeit the newer 100-400 is even better. My version used to really astound me.

Not sure what you can get the version 2 oc the 400mm f4 do. lens for, another great bit of kit, really light and takes mk 3 extenders really well

If you only display smallish web images its difficult to tell the difference but with our weather I've always appreciated the extra stop of light with the f4 lenses
 
Looking at the examples on the site I linked the DO doesn't seem to be a massive upgrade to the 5.6L for me. It does look better with EX 1.4 but you need to stop down to f8 on the examples. I reckon I'm likely to either keep the 5.6L or go for the 500mm f4 mk2 if I can find one at the right price
 
I've been lucky enough to play with all these at some point, and they all work superb wide open, even with converters.

At the end of the day the 500mm mk2 will give the best results providing you're find with the weight and cost
 
The weight ( and cost) isn’t great for me due to arthritic fingers. I can carry it- just not hold it on my hands. On a tripod it’s fine though
 
Woo, simply, the mark one IS supertele lens is a risk ,unless you can get not only the parts,which are no longer made,plus someone with that expertise to fix. you have a risk, that's why your price is lower,it's still an incredible tool Thats primarily why I upgraded to mark ii supertele

I use the 400do is ii I wish I had experience of your little 400 f5.6 to give an opinion, on their comparison but I can't. I think your benefits will really be in how the combination of body mark iii exts and IS ii series lens work together. for me that's what I bought into . A tiny little 400 that can become a 500 f5.6 with barely any loss in IQ and in good light I can wield an 800mm at f8,which I can still HH and carry for miles. Bud you don't need to stop down to produce really sharp images with the 1.4 and 400DO IS ii You do have to do your bit:) but the combo IQ wise is great wide open

Buddy for me what you do,the little niche you inhabitat as a wiildlife tog is everything . It's the biggest facet governing which of these tools is the best choice for you.. On paper a 400 f2.8 would be the right tool for me,I tend to shoot crepuscular species bar one thing,the weight and size would hamper my stalking ,well not hamper make it impossible. No way do I have the strength to maul that lump across the floor to within yards of a roe or hare . I also felt that about the 500 f4 is ii,which many folks felt would be right for me. too big and clumbersome. Mate I might be slightly left field subject wise of many here. Tis funny i'm an out and out bird nut have been since a tiny tot,but I shoot more wildlife than birds,for some unknown reason. I have a particular set of needs that maybe differ to many. LMAO many many times i've found myself over gunned becuase I've stuck and ext on, reach isn't everything,so much depends on the circumstances. Remember, unless shooting animal scape type images almost all the really good stuff comes when the subject is close

with you having mentioned arthritis I'd be wary of the bigger heavier lenses,they can very simply make life miserable : your wildlife togging should be about joy bro not misery. Sure the big lens might also be on a tripod you lug it to a hide or wall in a comfy bag set up and shoot static...so much depends on what you specifically do

Buddy maybe, maybe?? there should be another lens on your list,to pair with the R5 and that's canon's new RF 100-500?? . yeah I know f7.1. :D How useable the f7.1 aspect is to you will depend on how far you can push the ISO with the R5 sensor. coupled I guess with your ability to process said higher iso images.

@pooley Mike how ya doing bud?? too long no speak ,ha ha darkside user now:runaway::LOL: but you do have so much experience with canon. Do you think Wooster might be able to make use of that new lens.,is it concievable that a picky git, re IQ ,would be happy with the results??.

Mike things are changing so fast not only with the mirrorless options but also the way the sensors work and dare I say the abilites we now have with NR programmes. I know the question is a bit theory based, I'd doubt you have used this latest lens, sorry to put you on the spot. But you'll be aware of what's going on and have a few thoughts maybe??

Wooster all the luck Mike sorry to bother, there is sooo much choice around 400 500mm picking the right one is no easy thing as I found myself

take care both

stu
 
Stuart Philpott said:
Woo, simply, the mark one IS supertele lens is a risk ,unless you can get not only the parts,which are no longer made,plus someone with that expertise to fix. you have a risk, that's why your price is lower,it's still an incredible tool Thats primarily why I upgraded to mark ii supertele

I use the 400do is ii I wish I had experience of your little 400 f5.6 to give an opinion, on their comparison but I can't. I think your benefits will really be in how the combination of body mark iii exts and IS ii series lens work together. for me that's what I bought into . A tiny little 400 that can become a 500 f5.6 with barely any loss in IQ and in good light I can wield an 800mm at f8,which I can still HH and carry for miles. Bud you don't need to stop down to produce really sharp images with the 1.4 and 400DO IS ii You do have to do your bit:) but the combo IQ wise is great wide open

Buddy for me what you do,the little niche you inhabitat as a wiildlife tog is everything . It's the biggest facet governing which of these tools is the best choice for you.. On paper a 400 f2.8 would be the right tool for me,I tend to shoot crepuscular species bar one thing,the weight and size would hamper my stalking ,well not hamper make it impossible. No way do I have the strength to maul that lump across the floor to within yards of a roe or hare . I also felt that about the 500 f4 is ii,which many folks felt would be right for me. too big and clumbersome. Mate I might be slightly left field subject wise of many here. Tis funny i'm an out and out bird nut have been since a tiny tot,but I shoot more wildlife than birds,for some unknown reason. I have a particular set of needs that maybe differ to many. LMAO many many times i've found myself over gunned becuase I've stuck and ext on, reach isn't everything,so much depends on the circumstances. Remember, unless shooting animal scape type images almost all the really good stuff comes when the subject is close

with you having mentioned arthritis I'd be wary of the bigger heavier lenses,they can very simply make life miserable : your wildlife togging should be about joy bro not misery. Sure the big lens might also be on a tripod you lug it to a hide or wall in a comfy bag set up and shoot static...so much depends on what you specifically do

Buddy maybe, maybe?? there should be another lens on your list,to pair with the R5 and that's canon's new RF 100-500?? . yeah I know f7.1. :D How useable the f7.1 aspect is to you will depend on how far you can push the ISO with the R5 sensor. coupled I guess with your ability to process said higher iso images.

@pooley Mike how ya doing bud?? too long no speak ,ha ha darkside user now:runaway::LOL: but you do have so much experience with canon. Do you think Wooster might be able to make use of that new lens.,is it concievable that a picky git, re IQ ,would be happy with the results??.

Mike things are changing so fast not only with the mirrorless options but also the way the sensors work and dare I say the abilites we now have with NR programmes. I know the question is a bit theory based, I'd doubt you have used this latest lens, sorry to put you on the spot. But you'll be aware of what's going on and have a few thoughts maybe??

Wooster all the luck Mike sorry to bother, there is sooo much choice around 400 500mm picking the right one is no easy thing as I found myself

take care both

stu
Click to expand...

Thank you, Stuart for your reply. while the lighter lenses appeal for the reasons you say, f7.1 isn't really what I'm after. I'd rather stick with my light f5.6L if that was the choice.
The comparison with the DO 400mm here made me feel it wasn't any better than the 5.6L either though obviously a stop faster but according to this sample, f4 wasn't great compared to f5.6L wide open. Of course real life might be very different. At the moment, it seems I might either have to suffer the financial and physical burden of the 500mm f4 or stick with what I've got
 
Call me stu bud everyone does. Mate I wonder whether it's worth renting first,see how it works out for you? What ever your choice, you make bar staying where you are, it's a big choice and having been in a similar place it's a tough choice. Having a copy in our hand of what you think you need might really help solidify your thoughts

anyway bud, as before all the luck and very welcome :)
 
Box Brownie said:
None too sure but think I read a while back that the 500mm MK1 is no longer repairable due to no parts available???

If I have recalled that right then buying an 'out of service' older version carries some risk of "losing your money"???

PS maybe worth checking with Canon or perhaps Fixation in London.
Click to expand...

This is the key. If you find a very clean good example and use it carefully you might get away with it like most do? But there is a huge risk factor here. Best solution would be discussing this with insurance company if they can cover a breakdown.

Mr Badger said:
Also, do bear in mind that the focus depth of field of a 500mm lens at f4 will be very thin
Click to expand...

Sure, but so will be 5.6 and even 11 to a very minimally lower effect. On the other hand you get much nicer out of focus rendering at f/4 (and can always stop down).

Having said that there is that crazy cheapo 600mm f/11 RF lens which seems like a spy or bird spotting solution rather than anything of high IQ.

The other part of the equation is the weight. 500mm mk1 is better than 600mk1 which was basically not-hand-holdable at all. The mk2 would put it into a very usable category or you can spend some extra time in gym. For my small needs at that end I'm happy enough with lightweight 400mm f/5.6L and can take it absolutely anywhere.
 
Hi

I've pretty much decided on the 500mm f4L Mk II because of the repair and weight issues. I also reckon if I bought used, I could sell this in future with no £ loss. I looked at rental but TBH I reckon I'm pretty sure this is a lens I want. If in the unlikely event, its just not for me, I'd know pretty quickly and return. I don't feel bad doing this with a used item.

WEX has one going for £5,728 ( v precise figure?) described as attached. It seems reasonable. The only thing I don't know about is this wear to the mount. Is this a concern? Would it cost a lot to replace a mount in future if need be? I'm guessing this isn't an issue or WEX wouldn't rate it "9-". Am I right?

OTOH
I've seen a couple of cleaner examples without wear and they are only about £400 more. That's still in my budget and it might translate into a saving if potential repairs ( or even resale value ) are taken into account. Is it worth spending a bit more?

Anyway, on the basis that I trust WEX and rate them highly, I've ordered this to be delivered in a week when I will be at home and I will discuss my concerns with them today which will give me a chance to change my mind before they post it. In the meantime I'd welcome your thoughts on this particular item.

Thanks for your help,

William
 

Attachments

  • WEX 500mmf4.png
    WEX 500mmf4.png
    133.7 KB · Views: 27
Last edited:
I saw a mint condition 500mm f4L IS II in WEX so went for that one and it has now arrived. I just have to hope the arthritis and tendon issues are not dealbreakers.

My other reservation was to do with the rumoured release of RF versions of the 500mm and 600mm f4 IS lenses as well as perhaps some cheaper 500mm f4 DO lenses next year, which I assume will hit the resale value of the one I've just bought. The reality is that any such RF lenses (DO or not) will be beyond my budget, and there's nothing I can do about that. Worrying excessively about resale is the road to madness.

Initial impressions are that it's not as beastly heavy and unwieldy as I feared it might be, so that's positive. Obviously, lockdown is going to interfere with testing by lugging it around in the field and I'm likely to be restricted to my garden but I should get a reasonable idea of the situation during WEX's generous 30 day return window.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top