40D AF in Live View!

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lightpainter

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Peter Randall
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When shooting landscapes with a 40D in live view mode you can move the focusing frame to any area inside the screen, if you want to use auto focus ‘AF-ON’ button, you have to set this up with custom function settings, C-Fn 111 -6, to enable it. But if at any time you come out of live view you loose that C-Fn and have to re-set it, is there any way of forcing that custom function to stay enabled all the time?
 
Well i have a 40d... but have no idea about this, if it doesnt seem to work, could you just not use live view?, as its a landscape, shouldnt be to hard? sorry to be not much help
 
It's unfortunately not an option. once you exit LV it is cancelled and you have to set it again as far as I'm aware (I recollect someone asaked this question at an experience seminar and was informed the above.
 
Can't you save the option on one of the three custom setup positions?
 
I have my AF on button swapped with the * (AE lock) button and have my AF mapped to the * buttons, i use these to AF in normal use but im pretty sure it works all the time in Live view too (doesnt reset).
Theres an option in the live menu or the Cf menu that says something along the line of "AF in linve view". I think once thats set on mine it doesnt change.
 
lightpainter said:
When shooting landscapes with a 40D in live view mode you can move the focusing frame to any area inside the screen, if you want to use auto focus ‘AF-ON’ button, you have to set this up with custom function settings, C-Fn 111 -6, to enable it. But if at any time you come out of live view you loose that C-Fn and have to re-set it, is there any way of forcing that custom function to stay enabled all the time?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at here. The moveable "focusing frame", as you call it, is nothing to do with the AF function. It is simply the window you can magnify to 5X and 10X to aid manual focusing. On the 40D the AF function is still constrained to the nine standard focus points and you can't move those about.

On the 50D, which has the added feature of "Live View AF" (as opposed to the "Quick AF" which works like the 40D), moving that window about does permit AF within that moveable window, but it is slow. The 40D simply does not have that feature at all.

I have the 40D and 50D and I am not aware that any custom function gets reset simply because you quite Live View. That would seem quite absurd to me.
 
thompo said:
I have my AF on button swapped with the * (AE lock) button and have my AF mapped to the * buttons, i use these to AF in normal use but im pretty sure it works all the time in Live view too (doesnt reset).
Theres an option in the live menu or the Cf menu that says something along the line of "AF in linve view". I think once thats set on mine it doesnt change.
Click to expand...

I presume that you have the AV mapped to the* button rather than the shutter button to facilitate continuous focusing on a moving subject, I used to have this set up on my 20D but have forgotten how to do it, could you please give us a tutorial on it because I would really like to try it!
 
tdodd said:
I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at here. The moveable "focusing frame", as you call it, is nothing to do with the AF function. It is simply the window you can magnify to 5X and 10X to aid manual focusing. On the 40D the AF function is still constrained to the nine standard focus points and you can't move those about.

On the 50D, which has the added feature of "Live View AF" (as opposed to the "Quick AF" which works like the 40D), moving that window about does permit AF within that moveable window, but it is slow. The 40D simply does not have that feature at all.

I have the 40D and 50D and I am not aware that any custom function gets reset simply because you quite Live View. That would seem quite absurd to me.
Click to expand...

May I draw you attention to Page 114 of the 40D manual under ‘using AF tofocus’

If the C.Fn 111 -6 (AF during live view shooting) setting is set to (Enable), you can focus with the <AF-ON> button!

There you can learn something new every day!

But thanks for taking the time to answer my query!
 
I'm fully aware that you can focus with the AF-On button on the 40D during Live View, but that has nothing to do with moving the little window around on the Live View display. The AF can only function on the 40D by using (one of) the standard 9 AF points. Actually, it might be the centre point only but I'll need to double check that.

On the 40D the moveable window is only to position the 5X and 10X magnifier to wherever in the scene you want the magnification to take place. That is to facilitate accurate MF, or to verify that AF has given you the result you want. See page 110 of the manual for this operation. Moving the magnification window does nothing to change whereabouts the AF itself operates.

Once the custom function is set to enable AF during Live View then it stays set. Your first post stated that the custom function gets reset when you exit Live View. I don't believe that is true. Perhaps the magnification window gets re-centred, but you do not lose the ability to AF during Live View one you have enabled it. In fact, if only the centre point is used for AF in Live View then it would make good sense for the magnification window (focus frame if you must) to be relocated to the centre when you exit and re-enter Live View mode.

I'm sorry if my earlier message did not convey what I meant very well.

Just for clarity (I hope) the 50D has two main flavours of AF while using Live View. These are known as "Quick Mode", which works in a similar way to AF on the 40D and uses one of the nine normal focus points. I'll have to check but I think you can select which of the nine is used. There is also a new type of AF called "Live Mode", which does focus exactly where you position the magnification window. This extra "Live Mode AF" function works on the 50D because any part of the sensor can be used to perform contrast detect AF, just like a compact camera. The 40D does not have the hardware/software to AF in this fashion and thus it is not possible for AF positioning to follwo the magnification window. There is actually a "Face Detect" Live Mode on the 50D, which I'm sure is nice for somebody, but I don't use it.
 
tdodd said:
I'm fully aware that you can focus with the AF-On button on the 40D during Live View, but that has nothing to do with moving the little window around on the Live View display. The AF can only function on the 40D by using (one of) the standard 9 AF points. Actually, it might be the centre point only but I'll need to double check that.

On the 40D the moveable window is only to position the 5X and 10X magnifier to wherever in the scene you want the magnification to take place. That is to facilitate accurate MF, or to verify that AF has given you the result you want. See page 110 of the manual for this operation. Moving the magnification window does nothing to change whereabouts the AF itself operates.

Once the custom function is set to enable AF during Live View then it stays set. Your first post stated that the custom function gets reset when you exit Live View. I don't believe that is true. Perhaps the magnification window gets re-centred, but you do not lose the ability to AF during Live View one you have enabled it. In fact, if only the centre point is used for AF in Live View then it would make good sense for the magnification window (focus frame if you must) to be relocated to the centre when you exit and re-enter Live View mode.

I'm sorry if my earlier message did not convey what I meant very well.

Just for clarity (I hope) the 50D has two main flavours of AF while using Live View. These are known as "Quick Mode", which works in a similar way to AF on the 40D and uses one of the nine normal focus points. I'll have to check but I think you can select which of the nine is used. There is also a new type of AF called "Live Mode", which does focus exactly where you position the magnification window. This extra "Live Mode AF" function works on the 50D because any part of the sensor can be used to perform contrast detect AF, just like a compact camera. The 40D does not have the hardware/software to AF in this fashion and thus it is not possible for AF positioning to follwo the magnification window. There is actually a "Face Detect" Live Mode on the 50D, which I'm sure is nice for somebody, but I don't use it.
Click to expand...

That is in fact exactly what the 40D does! Try it, enable the C.Fn 111 -6 set the live view, move the focus frame, press the AF button, the mirror drops then comes up again and you are focused on where the frame is!
 
Well I shall go and try it now, as that is at complete odds with everything I've read. I'll post back with results.
 
tdodd said:
Well I shall go and try it now, as that is at complete odds with everything I've read. I'll post back with results.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Ok I have tried that and it doesn't work like that for me :( I have III 6 enabled (and have done since I first got the camera) but as far as I can work out the AF in live view only focuses on the center point (or it does all points and just appears to be center point in the quick tests I have done)
 
Test complete. For me also, AF is performed on whatever lies under the centre point. The positioning of the "focus frame" has no bearing on where AF takes place.

Just to explain, I used my 85/1.8 to make sure I achieved a shallow DOF and then placed two ornaments with enough variation in distance to ensure that only one could appear sharp. First I had the frame centred and aimed at the ornament further away and focused using AF. Sure enough, that distant ornament became sharp. Then I moved the "focus frame" over the nearer ornament and focused again. No change in AF. Then I panned the camera (on a tripod by the way) over to centre the closer ornament and focused once more. Focus moved to the centred ornament. Then I moved the frame over to the more distant ornament and focused once more. Focus stayed on the centred ornament. It is clear that the "focus frame" position has no bearing on where AF takes place. It's all about the centre point.

Also, if you read page 108 of the manual you will note that A-Dep mode operates in the same way as P mode. This further supports the assertion that only the centre point is active for AF during Live View.

It does seem that the position of the "focus frame" does have an influence over evaluative metering when using an autoexposure mode in Live View, but really it is not a "focus frame" it is a "focus verification frame", or let's just call it a "magnification window" as I did in my earlier posts. I think that Canon's manual is poorly written as far as AF within Live View is concerned for the 40D. There is inadequate explanation of the exact operation of the AF (centre point only!).
 
b****r, I believe you right! I have just tested again with the lens wide open ‘low DOF’ I must have been getting away with it because I usually shoot Landscapes at the smallest aperture so the DOF would not apply!

Well thank you Lads for teaching this old dog new tricks!
 
A bit of a late update to this topic but I thought that Chapter 5 in this 40D masterclass might help clarify things.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/masterclass/eos_40d.do

Key things to note....

- The mirror must drop down in order to perform AF. It is the normal AF system that operates. You cannot move the AF sensors around simply by moving the "Focusing frame".

- You move the focusing frame to check focus or to make fine adjustments manually. The focus frame is not linked to the AF system in any way.

This video may explain it better....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kBirlKjQSo&NR=1

Note that, once again, the "Focus frame" is moved around in order to assist manual focusing or focus checking. When they move on to talking about AF, although there is no explicit mention made, the "Focus frame" is back to the centre. There is no suggestion in either video that moving the focus frame around influences whereabouts the AF is targeted. It's a shame they don't explicitly state what does happen - i.e. centre point AF only.
 
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