1DX - Oil on sensor?....or just dirt?....

Mr Pid

Mr Pid

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Whilst attempting to improve some very boring and dull skies from Great Yarmouth I was playing with the Dehaze, when increasing the slider I noticed these spots appearing which got worse the further I pushed it.

I am not sure if this is oil or just dirt. I have cleaned my lenses and this only shows up on the 1DX body. I cannot see any visible dirt/dust on the sensor and I have cleaned with my airbrush. I havent tried a wet clean yet, although I have the equipment if necessary.

I know there are historical problems with oil on the sensor and I have checked my serial number, (of which 6th digit is 0). The camera has a very low shutter count, less than 20k and you cant see these spots on correctly exposed images.

Any ideas?...

(Obviously image altered to show up spots).

View media item 13254
 
Looks like dust bunnies to me. Dehaze really highlights dust, even that barely visible through a loupe.
 
OK - might brave a wet clean then.

All the examples of oil ive seen tend to be a small cluster concentrated in the top left corner so did make me wonder.

They did look translucent but I guess that just the aberrations playing tricks.
 
Mr Pid said:
... you cant see these spots on correctly exposed images.
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I bet you can. It's not the exposure that determines whether dust and other stuff on the sensor is visible - it's the aperture you shoot at.

Choose a target which is featureless and uniformly lit - the sky, or a blank wall, perhaps. Set the lens to manual focus and make sure the target is totally out of focus. Add a stop or two of exposure compensation to ensure that the resulting image is quite light. Then stop down to f/32 and shoot.

After doing that, you'll probably want to sit down and have a stiff drink. Then clean the sensor.
 
Dust issues are mostly a state of mind. There is always dust inside cameras, it's an inevitable fact of photographic life and always has been. But if you just accept that and manage it and work around it as needs be, then the 'problem' goes away even if a small amount of dust remains.

- sensors need wet cleaning from time to time. Accept the inevitable
- using a rocket blower now and then can reduce the need
- don't change lenses in a flour mill
- don't pump an extending zoom up and down unnecessarily in dusty environments
- dust specs are mostly invisible in practise, but avoid very high f/numbers when large areas of plain tone are included, eg skies
- some cameras have an automatic dust-delete function that can work well (it's basically software cloning out in-camera)
- or just clone it out in post-processing
- don't obsess about it or you'll go mad
 
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ChrisJ_SLH said:
:agree: This one hundred times... If you can't see it then it isn't there. If you can see it then do what you need to do but don't go looking for it because you will find it and it will drive you up the wall trying to get rid of all of it.
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Been there done that :oops: :$ I was determined to get my sensor clean, tried everything from the rocket blower to sensorklear pen to wet swabs. Wet swabs were the best and I thought my sensor was clean after taking a picture of a blue sky, but if I massively increased dehaze spots were still visible. I tried a couple of times more, and no matter how much I cleaned it I could still see spots after raising dehaze. I realised that I was going a bit OTT and just accepted that you'll never get a completely clean sensor unless you're working in a sterile dust free lab ;)
 
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All good advice - thanks chaps!

I shall give it a decent clean at the weekend. I'm pretty fastidious about keeping things clean and only change lenses on location if I have to.

Shooting mostly action/sports and wildlife in rubbish light means I tend to stick to the larger apertures (2.8/4/5.6) most of the time.

I'll get my marigolds on..... :-)
 
That sensor is ridiculously dirty.

I have a remarkably clean sensor and have like 1 mark showing at F22 right at the edge where sky would be in my shots (landscape). Using prime lenses rather than zooms have helped as I used to clean mine like very month, its been six

Echo the advice though, get it cleaned.

I also recommend using the in camera sensor cleaning, I believe it shakes the sensor slightly and gets rid of the odd loose spot. Set your camera to clean when turned off and on. Store the camera facing downwards in a clean bag so dirt cannot fall onto it (they're not as well sealed as you think).
 
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1dx's are renowned for oil splatter - mine got it all the time - I was forever wet cleaning the sensor - and the same with the replacement 1dx2. It's one of the cameras flaws. It may very well be dust as well - but you'll likely find it'll be oil more than anything. One of those blowy tools will most likely do nothing :) and you might need to wet clean more than once. And of course - the next time you use it - you'll splatter it all over again :)
 
HoppyUK said:
- don't obsess about it or you'll go mad
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Ha ha. Good advice. I wish I could take it. But one of the unanticipated consequences of running a hire business is that we have to obsess about dust. We inspect (and clean if necessary) every sensor, every time it's hired, and the standard we aim for is no visible at spots at 100% magnification on an image taken at f/32. It's probably overkill but you know what some people are like... better safe than sorry.
 
StewartR said:
Ha ha. Good advice. I wish I could take it. But one of the unanticipated consequences of running a hire business is that we have to obsess about dust. We inspect (and clean if necessary) every sensor, every time it's hired, and the standard we aim for is no visible at spots at 100% magnification on an image taken at f/32. It's probably overkill but you know what some people are like... better safe than sorry.
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You must be cleaning any 1dx/1dx2's every 10 minutes then!
 
StewartR said:
Ha ha. Good advice. I wish I could take it. But one of the unanticipated consequences of running a hire business is that we have to obsess about dust. We inspect (and clean if necessary) every sensor, every time it's hired, and the standard we aim for is no visible at spots at 100% magnification on an image taken at f/32. It's probably overkill but you know what some people are like... better safe than sorry.
Click to expand...

That's a very high standard you're working to :thumbs: You must have tried every cleaning method. What do you recommend?

Have you tried Eyelead sticky pads? Allegedly some manufacturers use it in their service depts (may be an internet myth ;)).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyelead-SC...29867925&sr=1-1&keywords=eyelead+sensor+clean
 
HoppyUK said:
That's a very high standard you're working to (y) You must have tried every cleaning method. What do you recommend?

Have you tried Eyelead sticky pads? Allegedly some manufacturers use it in their service depts (may be an internet myth ;)).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyelead-SC...29867925&sr=1-1&keywords=eyelead+sensor+clean
Click to expand...

I use eyelead. In 12 odd years of doing photography, I’ve never done a wet clean.
I just use a rocket blower mostly and if there’s something that the blower won’t shift, the sticky pad removes it effortlessly.
 
The eyelead's seem to have mixed reviews. From reading the bad reviews i'm guessing that they are mostly down to user error more than anything.

Tempted to get one tbh.
 
Got the Eyelead and gave it a good clean - i'd say 95% of dust is gone and birds against the sky look ok.

Trying not to let my OCD obsess about the last few remaining specs.

However...... I can see particles in the view finder, I've cleaned mirror and eye piece so not sure where they are or how I can get rid of them?......
 
Mr Pid said:
Got the Eyelead and gave it a good clean - i'd say 95% of dust is gone and birds against the sky look ok.

Trying not to let my OCD obsess about the last few remaining specs.

However...... I can see particles in the view finder, I've cleaned mirror and eye piece so not sure where they are or how I can get rid of them?......
Click to expand...

They’ll be trapped behind the focusing screen under the bottom of the prism. You can release the screen and tilt it down to clean behind it.
 
I wet clean my 1dx2 sensor.
Blowers just move the crap somewhere else, like the focus screen.
 
Mr Pid said:
Got the Eyelead and gave it a good clean - i'd say 95% of dust is gone and birds against the sky look ok.

Trying not to let my OCD obsess about the last few remaining specs.

However...... I can see particles in the view finder, I've cleaned mirror and eye piece so not sure where they are or how I can get rid of them?......
Click to expand...
In the viewfinder or on the focus screen? If it's the latter I can get rid of mine using a rocket blower with the mirror DOWN and blowing up towards the focus screen.
 
I was worried when you first mentioned about removing the focus screen, but after a little research, looks like a fairly straightforward job, and replacements are pretty cheap, just in case I mess it up! :-)
 
Mr Pid said:
I was worried when you first mentioned about removing the focus screen, but after a little research, looks like a fairly straightforward job, and replacements are pretty cheap, just in case I mess it up! :)
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The focus screen sits in its own chamber. When you lift the small tag on the top it just hinges down. I use an Arctic Butterfly brush then to sweep the screen. I do it quite often. The screen has to be lifted out it doesn’t just fall out.
 
HoppyUK said:
And thoughts on Eyelead @StewartR ?
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It was really good - it doesn't feel like it does much, and there is a big temptation to press harder than you need to.

Also the replacment sticky pads are expensive. I shall just use white vinyl in future as its exactly the same.

I havent needed to do a wet clean yet, but I have four air shows over the next two weekend to might do, just in case.
 
HoppyUK said:
And thoughts on Eyelead @StewartR ?
Click to expand...
It's one of the tools we use, but not the first. Our general approach is usually:
1. in-camera cleaning
2. Arctic Butterfly type brush
3. Eyelead sticky spludger
4. Wet clean

The Eyelead is particularly good when there are big lumps of crud on the sensor, but rather inefficient when you have lots of small dust particles. Horses for courses and all that.
 
Mr Pid said:
I havent needed to do a wet clean yet, but I have four air shows over the next two weekend to might do, just in case.
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That would be pointless. Checking the sensor is easy enough. If it's dirty, clean it. If it isn't, don't. But cleaning it "just in case" makes no sense.

If you're not sure how to check the sensor, read my post #4 earlier in this thread.
 
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StewartR said:
It's one of the tools we use, but not the first. Our general approach is usually:
1. in-camera cleaning
2. Arctic Butterfly type brush
3. Eyelead sticky spludger
4. Wet clean

The Eyelead is particularly good when there are big lumps of crud on the sensor, but rather inefficient when you have lots of small dust particles. Horses for courses and all that.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stewart. That's good enough for me :thumbs:
 
Turns out the Eyelid did nothing to help my dust issue, or I have secret dust, hiding somewhere, other than the sensor and lenses.......

Just took this off the camera after Yeovilton and you can see that dust is now worse than before!

Not to mention the photo ruined by heat haze, which crept in on anything more than 2ft away :-(

View media item 13263
Time for wet clean before I go insane......
 
Mr Pid said:
Turns out the Eyelid did nothing to help my dust issue, or I have secret dust, hiding somewhere, other than the sensor and lenses.......

Just took this off the camera after Yeovilton and you can see that dust is now worse than before!
Click to expand...
Why on earth didn't you check the sensor before going to the air show? I mean, it's not rocket science, and I've already explained how to do it.

My process:
  1. Check sensor.
  2. Clean if necessary.
  3. Repeat until clean.
Your process, apparently:
  1. Wonder about doing wet clean "just in case".
  2. Don't bother checking sensor.
  3. Use Eyelead to clean sensor but not thoroughly or properly.
  4. Don't bother checking sensor.
  5. Don't bother checking sensor.
  6. Take photos at airshow.
  7. Wonder about doing wet clean.
  8. Repeat.
 
HoppyUK said:
Dust issues are mostly a state of mind. There is always dust inside cameras, it's an inevitable fact of photographic life and always has been. But if you just accept that and manage it and work around it as needs be, then the 'problem' goes away even if a small amount of dust remains.

- sensors need wet cleaning from time to time. Accept the inevitable
- using a rocket blower now and then can reduce the need
- don't change lenses in a flour mill
- don't pump an extending zoom up and down unnecessarily in dusty environments
- dust specs are mostly invisible in practise, but avoid very high f/numbers when large areas of plain tone are included, eg skies
- some cameras have an automatic dust-delete function that can work well (it's basically software cloning out in-camera)
- or just clone it out in post-processing
- don't obsess about it or you'll go mad
Click to expand...
Pity the poor OCD tog :D
 
StewartR said:
Why on earth didn't you check the sensor before going to the air show? I mean, it's not rocket science, and I've already explained how to do it.
Click to expand...

I guess you didn't read my reply on tuesday? I did check the sensor and there is no visible dust on it. I still cannot see any visible dust on the sensor using my loupe and I believed the Eyelead would have removed any dust that I couldnt see.

I am struggling to see how I have exacerbated the dust issue by cleaning it?

The dust is only visible as this was taken at F29 to try and reduce the light into the camera from shooting into the sun.

I cant see how I can see dust spots through the view finder which also appear on the images? Its not the lens as I use the same lens on my 5D4 and the images are crystal clear.
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
Pity the poor OCD tog :D
Click to expand...

Haha :eek: There is always dust, you just have to accept it, work around it and live with it. It's very hard to get a sensor absolutely 100% clean and even if you do achieve that happy state, it will begin a progressive return the moment you next click the shutter. There is dust in and around all sides of the mirror box, on and under the mirror, on the rear of the lens, and when you take a picture the mirror flaps up and down and creates a mini hurricane in there. If you shoot at high f/numbers like f/16 and above, you will see it against a plain sky for sure.

Just check it now and then as Stewart described, zoom in on the camera's LCD and scroll around the image like you were mowing the lawn, then clean as necessary. If you see dust in an image, it will be on the sensor. Dust anywhere else will be too far out of focus to see in an image. For reference, a dust mark in the top-right of an image will be on the bottom-right of the sensor as you look at it through the lens mount.

If you see dust through the viewfinder of a DSLR, it will almost certainly be on the underside of the focusing screen, just above the mirror. Use a rocket blower and be careful not to touch the screen which is plastic and covered in very fine ridges that are easy to damage. It'll do no harm, but will leave make a permanent mark.
 
HoppyUK said:
There is dust in and around all sides of the mirror box, on and under the mirror, on the rear of the lens, and when you take a picture the mirror flaps up and down and creates a mini hurricane in there.
Click to expand...

Good point - the Dakota was at the end of a long day. I came away with 7,000 photos (3,500 on each body) and at high speed burst on the 1DX so I guess that has a fair amount to account for as well.

I clean again this week and check before I go, can't do much more than that.
 
Mr Pid said:
Good point - the Dakota was at the end of a long day. I came away with 7,000 photos (3,500 on each body) and at high speed burst on the 1DX so I guess that has a fair amount to account for as well.

I clean again this week and check before I go, can't do much more than that.
Click to expand...

Cloning out dust marks in post-processing is easy and effective, and can be automated. In Lightroom for example, clone them out in one image, then copy those adjustments and simply apply them to all the others. Job done - google it. Bear in mind that during a long shoot there will probably be some build up of dust spots and existing spots may also move.
 
HoppyUK said:
In Lightroom for example, clone them out in one image, then copy those adjustments and simply apply them to all the others.
Click to expand...

That was my next plan - I was hoping to create a preset and call it "dusty DX" but like you said, I can only see this function when you copy settings across from pic to pic.
 
Mr Pid said:
That was my next plan - I was hoping to create a preset and call it "dusty DX" but like you said, I can only see this function when you copy settings across from pic to pic.
Click to expand...

I don't think you need a preset, though it would be easy enough to create one.

Really easy and effective. Just clone out the dust in a representative image. This then becomes, in effect, your preset and you can call it back up any time. Then highlight all the other images affected, go into Sync, click Spot Removal, and it's done.

Then when you go to make other changes in those images, click on the clone tool again and it'll show the corrections so you can change them, move them, add more, delete them or whatever you want (y)

ps You should always check Synched cloning adjustments. It obviously works by selecting a clean area of the image to replace the dust mark, but on other images the cloned area may not be clear sky but could be part of the aeroplane or whatever, in which case just click on the cloned area and drag it to somewhere more suitable for that particular image. If that's likely to be a recurring problem, you can delete all existing synched adjustments and reapply from the new reference image.
 
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